I also think NCA received a makeover over several months, rather than all at once. Even the sectorials that have been redone, like Acon, still aren't perfect (looking at you, Singh and Rao.) The scope of NCA's changes are certainly on par with Acon. MO looks like it got a more massive rework, but it also needed it the most. NCA has been consistently viable since N2.
NCA isn't really in a bod place IMO. Sure they don't have mixed links or any Harris worth using. but whatever. Fusiler team accompanied by a Swiss guard will always be decent. I think the ITSX character adds plenty to the sectorial. I'm actually really satisfied with the new Deva profiles as well. NCA is just fine, though they may feel a little dated.
NCA was a viable competitive Hacking army before these changes, I've run it successfully as such myself. The new Deva AHD+Lightning makes them better at it, but it's not a light years difference. And, Bolts are... fine. If you dodge the bad profiles and are in either a good mission or a good opponent matchup.
And I think this might best sum up things with regards to NCA, at least for me. "...fine. If you dodge the bad profiles and are in either a good mission or a good opponent matchup". I realize some might disagree with me, but quite frankly? I think that any sectorial should be able to stand on its own. If at any point they choose to yank the non-Sectorial based stuff, would it be a Sectorial people would want to run? I'd call it the "JSA test" but some might get mad at me for that or think I'm trolling.
this is a false equivalency because no YJ sectorial (read:ISS) lost any JSA units. for this to be equivalent you'd have to ask yourself if vanilla PanO lost aleph units would they still be viable.....
I think ignoring half the profiles because you dont think they belong there (Despite the fact they are there, clearly belong there and that CB agrees they belong there) Is fooling yourself, denying the reality of the situation and if you feel limited for not taking those units thats your fault, not CBs, Not the rest of the player bases.,
And you just constructed a strawman for an argument I didn't even attempt to make. Also it's worth mentioning that Ninjas were a JSA unit that was shared out...but likely only remained in ISS because they're in the Red Veil box. Nowhere did I mention vanilla. I'm specifically talking about Sectorials. The 'test' is that if you were to pull anything that isn't a part of that Sectorial barring things like Drones or Remotes...would it remain viable? That's what I use when I've made my arguments for making MO into a NA2.
I don't know many, I think you're complaining about a non-issue. You don't want Aleph units in your PanO sectorial? great. play vanilla.
And this is the problem. You're assuming that it's simply "He doesn't want ALEPH units! What a whiner!". No. I want, if that specific role is a necessity, a NCA equivalent. If it's so important to have a Deva setup? I want a NCA profile that matches it. If it's so important to have something like the ITS character? I want a NCA profile matching it. So important to have something like the Blackfriar? Yup--NCA profile matching it! And honestly--extend that argument to every Sectorial, not just NCA. If you can't see why that's a valid stance to take, we're done having a discussion.
Save for the fact that vanilla factions exist, which would result in what CB likely sees as too many profiles. That, coupled with in game reasons why different units from factions fight together, allows for one profile to fill the same role in multiple armies. In a perfect wold, your solution could be better. In the world as it is, it results in far too many profiles as long as playing a vanilla faction exists as an option.
It also demonstrates the inter-related and intergrated nature of the forces in the Sphere. Aleph troops showing up in Yu Jing and PanO sectorials is a great way of showing how those forces are mutually reliant. Same as Nomad units in MRRF
You are making two incorrect assumptions there: a) Just because a unit is useful, does not mean its role is critical, b) Devas are not foreign mercenaries paid by gold, they are NCA units. This is actually much different from Nomad units in MRRF in my opinion. Devas may be Aleph created, but NCA commanders obviously trust them enough to use them in highly classified operations. This means, for all their "foreignness", they are considered their own units.
I'm not sure how much of that is 'trust the Computer' and how much of that is 'we don't have anything that fills that role so we MUST use Aleph units.' There is also this thing called Need to Know. Even if you possess a clearance to look at things, if you don't have Need to Know, you don't get to see them. That's not what I've seen as the YJ and PanO design briefs. PanO stuff has always been 'Tech, not skills' and 'highly optimized for one role and one role only'; while YJ has been 'Skills over tech' and 'able to fill a variety of roles if necessary'.
Yeah, see I don't think that this is reasonable. Especially when you are literally asking for more duplication of existing units. The fact that Aleph units don't pair across to Vanilla PanOceania is actually an issue I think could be simply resolved by allowing them IN VANILLA. It works fine for Haqq. Yeah, we get enough whining about useless duplicates for function (see Black Friar Sniper) already. This is exactly how I feel about it. For me this improves the feel of immersion and the depth of the setting. Putting everything into totally exclusive boxes does neither.
Why do you want an NCA profile to do a thing a profile in another army already does correctly? I'm a huge fan of the ALEPH profiles I get in ASA, they basically hold the army together in some ways (looking at Nagas and Dart).
Honestly? I feel like PanO could use a complete revamp in terms of its unit presence. Especially in light of Shock's demise. I have more to say on it but I'm kinda done with the constant piling on today. Maybe next week. For me, it's good that it does it...but at the same time it feels too forced in some places. It's way more noticeable in PanO I feel.
There's no demise here. Also, PanO is getting a revamp right now; it needed some fresh look about its design philosophy, and it's obvious that it got one. It needed some problems fixed, most of them in MO, and it's obvious that they're being fixed. Some will remain; Singh, Rao, probably Bolts, maybe something in MO that we don't know about yet. We're still bound to end in a much better place than before the changes. Regarding Aleph's units - I'm with daboarder on this one, it nicely highlights coordination between Aleph and some of the HS forces. Some of the units were headscratchers - SP troops in ASA, for example; in the beginning I'd say OSS units fit them better - but it works in the long run. I'm surprised no Aleph unit made it to VIRD.
Before transitioning to Infinity I used to play warmahordes. As a menoth player, it genuinely surprised me when I met other Menites that refused to use mercs. Why? Because they wanted an army of the faithful and mercs not explicitly defined as being menites were not 'part of the faction'. Didn't matter if they were included in the faction design space during balances and merc use was in the fluff. There were people that just wouldn't use them. That's fine. We enjoyed many a friendly game regardless. Competitive and regular tournament players? Different story. Merc solos were staples and only reason merc units weren't taken because ours were cheaper and better XD Infinity is the same. Some people will not field units that don't have blue hats. Ok. That's fine. I understand. But demanding that the faction be re-balanced to be ITS effective for Blue Hats Only list building, that's a bit odd. It's someone's personal choice putting the shackles on themselves - ignoring the fluff and the rules by doing so. It's a fine personal choice but it's not a reasonable imposition on the designer to fix. Especially, when as pointed out, Aleph isn't 'mercs'. Aleph is an important part of PanO. There are people that playthrough (video/computer) games with certain self-imposed conditions. Like those people that play fallout on hardcore mode with no stimpack use. The game wasn't designed to do that so if you're having a hard time, that's not surprising. But the game shouldn't be changed to allow you to do that easily either. It's how you choose to play and that's it. The designer wants you to heal. The designer wants the possibiilty of adding Gorman De Wulfe to your menite army. And CB wants Aleph to support PanO because Aleph is there 'to help humanity' (allegedly).
That's my problem, actually. I agree that Aleph units should support PanO in open ops, particularly on Paradiso. But why are Aleph units involved in Black Ops on Svalarheima? We all know that the Sphere tries really hard to keep some secrets from Aleph, that is a large part of what keeps Tunguska funded.
Not to mention killing and being killed by Imperial Service Garudas, Dakinis and Sophotects during those same operations. Or attacking ALEPH's own forces. While in-faction equivalent units for the ALEPH filler troops would be an unreasonable luxury for now while new sectorials are still being designed, it would be pleasant not to have humanity's helper repeatedly shooting itself during the canonical online campaigns whenever ISS and PanO encounter each other.
