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Well, its about time we blow this joint

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by MikeTheScrivener, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Let combi be, its always an basic budget option (but its abomination if this is only optiom like almost on KotHS who have single profile).
     
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  2. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    What box is the Montesa with LRL in? I found the combi blister and SF in SAA starter but nothing else.

    The only Montesa I have ever used was LT with combi.
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    These two are the only Montesa sculpts available. I've added an underslung LGL to the Combi version, and I'm using it as LRL as well.
     
  4. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    Ah, ok, thanks, I didn’t think I had seen any others but I wanted to be sure before they were discontinued.
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The Europeans never really grokked Dragoons.

    The US did, but we had avoided the upper class/knightly cavalry traditions entirely.


    Depending on tree spacing, there are some places in the US where nothing short of a snake can work between trees (most of us suggest clearing those places with fire, before nature does it for us). There are other places where a motorcycle or horse will fit fine, but not anything bigger. There are other places where a 4-wheeler will fit, but a modern truck or Humvee won't. And finally there are places where an actual tank can navigate between trees.



    I dunno, there are some CB minis I don't like. Not many, and fewer with each set of resculpts. But they do exist.
     
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  6. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    Wow this thread went places.

    This Entire thread can be summarized thusly:

    If you don’t like BikeKnights, then don’t buy or field them.

    If you do like them, buy and field as many as you want.

    Don’t try and convince the other party to change, it’s not worth it.

    And for gods sake, this is a sci fi game built on the premise of bad science and artichoke aliens. Take your realism discussions to the WWII modelers’ forums and argue shades of olive drab or ghost grey by year, and unit markings by theatre.
     
  7. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    oh I will, don't you worry.

    I will
     
  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    As far as the historical reflection is concerned, I think mounted cavalry were only effective as long as the advantages of mobility outweigh their vulnerability to the projectile weapons of the day. Dragoons, Hussars, Cuirassers, Lancers were potent in the late 18th/early 19th century because their presence imposed restrictions on both massed musketry and the artillery batteries of the day. Cavalry had the speed to inflict shock attacks on wavering opponents, prevent broken formations from reforming, and attack/sabotage poorly defended or abandoned artillery emplacements. Rock/paper/scissors. Line infantry could withstand cavalry, but the formations for doing so rendered them vulnerable to skirmishers and artillery. Skirmishers and artillery were vulnerable to cavalry, but only if they were unsupported by line infantry. Cavalry were vulnerable to other cavalry and prepared line infantry.

    For cavalry to have a place again, their mobility and personal defense has to be greater than the small arms they're likely to encounter. It's hard for us to really conceive personnel armor capable of operating on that level, or (viewed from a historical concept) projectile weapons so ineffective/inaccurate that they need to be volleyed for reasonable effect, and cavalry formations could stay safe by simply staying out of range.
     
  9. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    While certainly hard to realistically imagine, visual representation is relatively easy to find. Every time you see captain america on his motorcycle absorbing gun fire with his shield, is ideally how power armor would dissipate gun fire, it has to have some hyper effective measure of force absorption and transfer, otherwise the first shot from non small arms fire would unseat the rider.
     
  10. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    In infinity, the cool of rule is the only reason needed to included motorcycles. We have werewolves that can tank missiles after all.
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    I don't have an image or mechanical issue with power armored knights (or samurai!) on a motorcycle, I have a fluff issue with Knights of Montessa on motorcycles.
     
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  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I might have an internal balance issue with it because Montesas were one of the units that didn't need a remake, but I'm holding my judgement. PanO is supposed to get updated slightly in November, so it might play into other MO changes. I can't judge it without having a full picture.

    This also applies to fluff, because for now we know pretty much nothing. Fluff doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to explain the change well enough, and for me it's still secondary consideration to gameplay.
     
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  13. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Well, from a setting and background perspective it makes some sense that a unit using APCs to deploy might also have outriders.
     
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  14. Balewolf

    Balewolf It's all opinion

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    Imagine a branch of the military tasked with one type of engagement; like amphibious assaults. Say they have all the equipment and vehicles to do their amphibious assault job, like landing craft, amphibious tanks and even air support. Now they even get other vehicles and equipment to carry the fight further inland, like transports, small recon vehicles like bikes and quads, jeeps, regular tanks, more air support and stuff like that. Now consider that they are all called Marines. I don't see it far off with Montessa having two MOs.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    And if that's how it gets fluffed, I will withdraw my argument.



    @Balewolf Problem with the analogy is that the Marines have been the '9-1-1 Force' since I was born. Yes, part of their mission is amphibious assaults (and support thereof). But that's not their entire mission.
     
  16. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    IIRC the first major combat action of what could be seen as the modern formation of the USMC (and indeed the US Army they were attached to) as a more regular standing service took place in WW1 many miles inland. Only in the Pacific theatre (including Korea a few years later) have they ever actually performed that "one type of engagement" on a major scale. So is it truly their primary role?
     
  17. berynius

    berynius Well-Known Member

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    What part of the their fluff indicates to you that they would not have a bike unit?
    From what I have read they are assault specialists, now true on Paradiso a Motessa bike unit do not make a lot of sense (at least in the current theaters which are if I recall correctly mostly jungle) But on Acontecimento is a another ball game. In the RPG fluff Acontecimento is described as a planet of vast plains and prairies punctuated by vast old growth forest (the biggest is the great forest preserve) in that terrain motorcycles/ATV/ect absolutely makes sense.
     
  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Because there is something called the Equestrian Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulcher? Guys that really should be cavalry? OK, the KotHS are known for their high numbers of Seraphs (call that heavy cav), but why aren't their basic knights on motorcycles?
     
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  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    because they're bad instead
     
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  20. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Because it's less "Equestrian" as in mounted and more "Equestrian" in the Roman Republican sense.
     
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