Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Mahtamori, Jan 9, 2018.
Well you managed to write DICK ten times in caps in a single message. That's a feat on its own.
XDD I had more dick jokes ready but the post was already overloaded. I'm worse than a kid sometimes :P
Spoiler: More green jokes!
CIPOTE is the perfect weapon when your foe is against the wall.
... A S5 CIPOTE would be enough to successfully complete most missions, but these models were retired because their pilot were too ashamed to step out of the OTE. / A second generation of these models with S5 (microCIPOTE) were developed, but they were dissmised as being useless.
The final version of our CIPOTEs is loaded with an adhesive launcher; however some the pilots warn that under stress CIPOTE could shoot it on its own.
Yeah, a lot of places classify weapons differently. For example many nations would look at the MG42 and call it an HMG, yet apparently the German military manuals (at least for WW2, not sure if they still do) designate it based on its current role. An MG42 on a tripod or in an emplacement is an HMG, but that same MG42 is now an LMG when carried by the machine gunner in a squad.
Told you PanO won't get it xD
I think the Brits have the right idea on this one: GPMG, as in General Purpose Machine Gun (FN MAG, though the MG34 and 42 both met that description as well). If I end up writing a scifi game, I'm going to use GPMG for that weapon, and save HMG for something really big, like a .50BMG.
The FN Minimi or IWI Negev are light machine guns, even though they're rather heavy in weight. Belt fed with intermediate (assault rifle) cartridges, what we call Red Furies/Spitfires/Molotoks in Infinity. (Technically, the Spitfire is a different caliber than a Combirifle, while Red Furies are the same caliber as a combi)
Well, at least Bolts got a sensible makeover ;)
Though we also classified the L96 as an LMG, which puts it in the same classification as the Minimi and Bren. I think it's best to acknowledge that the categories aren't perfect, and that guns 175 years from now might not map exactly onto today's.
I did like our term for SMGs back in the 30's, the brass decided that "Submachine Guns" were something assosciated with gangsters and ne'er-do-wells so they classified tommy guns as "Machine Carbines".
German doctrine around the "universal" machinegun was borne of WW1 experience and also, as with a lot of WW2 German tactics, sidestepping the Treaty of Versailles. This video is pretty detailed about German squad tactics based around the MG... which kinda also underlines one of the problems with Infinity's weapons and classifying them, since the weapons are usually classed by their intended role in a section or squad in combat, not by their use in spec-ops skirmishes with a few fireteams at most like Infinity ostensibly depicts.
The L86 is arguably closer to the RPK or M27 IAR since it's (basically) the service rifle with modifications. The M27's a little bit different being an upgraded version of an upgraded version (IE the HK416 using a different gas system but pretty much being the same as an M4), being Light Support or Squad Automatic weapons. But the M249/Minimi, a true Light Machinegun, is also called the SAW and used as a light support weapon.
I find they're generally classed by role or length of the round fired, but more usually the intended role. Like, a squad automatic weapon is generally an LMG, or an automatic rifle firing intermediate rifle rounds about 50 to 65mm long, but even a weapon firing rounds between about 70 to 90mm that are generally seen as battle rifle rounds is an "LMG" in some older doctrines as noted. Anything bigger is usually specialised for sniper/antimateriel rifles or an HMG round. It does make some sense HMGs and Sniper Rifles have the same damage looking at it like that. If we assume a combi-rifle round is about Intermediate length but able to have similar damage to a full battle rifle round somehow, it could mean the Spitfire is probably using a battle rifle length with the more advanced magic bullet tech of combi-rifles to get a bit more power.
Also, I'd personally love an Autocarbine/Machine Carbine alternative to the current SMG. Think I said it before, but the SMG name doesn't quite add up either to me. Something with a nice B3 ROF but only dam 11/12 and normal, like it was really firing pistol rounds. Which is what an SMG/Machine Carbine usually is. Except if it isn't full auto or burst capable, and only fires a pistol round either semi or bolt action ,it's then called just a carbine.
Which is also a word used for a short rifle, usually a shorter version of the standard infantry assault or battle rifle.
And for the M1 Carbine. Which wasn't actually a carbine version of the M1 Rifle, but instead, a different weapon that used a different shorter .30 cal round specially built for it meaning it wasn't actually a pistol calibre carbine at all until some revolvers were built to take it in the 50s, AND THEN it can arguably be called an assault rifle or Machine Carbine/SMG with the M2 and M3 variants that have select fire! Argh!
Ahem, anyway, the current Infinity SMG meanwhile is more like a rifle-calibre carbine or Personal Defence Weapon/PDW, but somehow also a quasi MULTI weapon. I'd personally just rename it the PDW and bring in a more traditional SMG/Machine Carbine. PDW at least is a classification of intended role rather than the round fired.... especially since a bunch of assholes started selling "PDWs" that are actually just very short rifles.
Don't forget that some militaries classify very short assault rifles like the HK51 and AKS-74U as SMGs.
With regards to the non-special version of the SMG we already have the assault pistol. The machine pistol/SMG divide is already hazy in real life with weapons like the Škorpion, Micro-Uzi, MP9, and their ilk.
The Assault Pistol is a little baffling too. It has the stopping power of a combi-rifle in shorter rounds, somehow. It has a higher ROF than any other weapon that isn't usually SWC. And thanks to "light rounds" and that ROF, it's inaccurate at range.
It sounds like whoever wrote or translated the blurb knew that machine pistols often had a high ROF and were cumbersome to use properly, but somehow doesn't realise the problem isn't the rounds themselves but the small weapon itself. Something like the MP7 has a fairly tame recoil compared to, say, a Glock 18. There's other ways to tame recoil as well: burst fire, stocks, foregrips. They aren't perfect but they can help.
So naturally the Nomads stick a great big choppy bit in place instead of a foregrip or whatever, and PanO have the magazine there.
It also is a bit odd that these compacted rounds seemingly aren't used in more weapons. Like, say, a regular non-auto pistol...
Before we had stats for the SMG (this is back in N2, mind you), most of us were expecting it to have B3 or 4 and DAM11/12, I was definitely thinking MP5, shooting pistol ammo at a higher rate of fire. Because that is still the definition of the sub-machine gun today, a pistol-caliber short rifle that can shoot full auto (or select-fire).
Even the P90/Five-seveN pistol ammo (5.7x28mm) isn't all that hot a round, it's a 30grain bullet at 2350fps (~2gram at 716m/s) from the P90, more like 1600-1800 from the pistol. Civilian loads have a heavier bullet going slower, usually ~40grains at ~2200fps from the P90. And that is the same kind of bullet weight and velocity you see from the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire. Well under what I'd feel safe carrying as a sidearm, but the military ammo can punch body armor. I had a Five-seveN pistol, grip was narrower than a double-stack 9mm but a lot longer. Almost uncomfortably long for my hands. Fun to shoot, though!
... really now?
You don't think the weapon described as the SMG in Infinity is oddly powerful, particularly for it's pointscost?
Yeah, MHV is a pretty good channel. That video is where I got my info initially.
I'd like an Ariadna TAG. *winkwink*
A weapon I'd like in game is the Periscope.
This advanced construction of two mirrors on a stick allows soldiers to spot enemies without exposing themselves to danger. User may perform a Forward Observe BS attack during a Cautious Movement Short Skill, denying enemies LoS or FTF rolls as per Cautious Movement rules.
My joke suggestion would be to give PanOceanians access to the positively OP weapon developed by Australia on a Turkish beach during WW1, the Periscope Rifle. As Periscope, but it's also a gun.
@psychoticstorm That’s not an appropriate moderation comment.
It’s totally unclear to which post it refers, what the behaviour that is in breach of the forum rules comprises nor the desired corrective action.
It’s worse than useless since it provides justification for posters to ignore moderation.
You are right, it was about all the male genitalia "jokes" in the thread ...in different languages.
I'm guilty then :P. I think these jokes are innocuous; but if anyone found it inappropriate, I'm sorry.
I'll put an spoiler around them.
This would be the non-green version of it:
This would be a S6 TAG but with different rules and playstile.
They would be 2 separate models rules-wise (not like the Pilot of a manned TAG), both models would take only 1 spot in the combat group and only 1 order would be generated (which require the Pilot not being in a null state).
When unmounted, you can activate the pilot, TAG or both. If you choose both, they will activate as if the Armor would be a G:Syncronized.
The idea would be that the Pilot take an active role in the fight after he is in a good position thanks to the AI TAG. The AI TAG would have highly mobility (6-4), even with some perks like superjump and Stealth, but with light armor (ARM 6, STR 2) for a TAG, both would have mid/sort range weaponry.
The idea of this model is a highly aggressive Rambo for a mid/high tech faction that would cost around 60-80 points. As both profiles are independent the loss of the pilot won't turn the AI TAG in a paperweight, and also you can give one of them a marker state without giving it to the other.