The situation in question is the following: an enemy trooper is standing with his back to a window. My trooper shoots the window with a Missile Launcher, and the window breaks (big surprise there). Here's where it becomes a bit vague for me - the opponent tells me that Campaign Paradiso book has a rule that rules that you can use Warning! if a scenery structure is attacked in ZoC, just as you would with a friendly trooper. We didn't have the book with us, but the concept seemed logical (you'd think that a missile exploding centimeters away from you would trigger SOME response) so was okay with that. And then that trooper drops prone - while, as far as I can see, warning only allows you to turn to face the attacker. So the questions are: 1) Can you go Prone on Warning? 2) Can you use Warning, if a scenery piece is attacked in your ZoC?
You cannot use go prone from warning, only twist your LOF. And 2 Id say no as Scenery is not friendly
I'd allow it on the basis the rules assumes that the only things being shot at are Enemies / Friends which isn't actually true. Follow up what were you hoping to achieve by destroying the window?
You'd also think that SOME response is needed in the following cases too: - A cloud of smoke appears in front of you. - A mysterious camo marker is placed in front of your face by a trooper that has Mines among his equipment. But in all these cases mechanics are specifically written in a way that would not allow any reactions. Yeah, I'm back on the same topic of smoke resolution, but my god it's so dumb: you can use smoke to avoid hits from a LoF-requiring BS attack, but smoke appears only after conclusion of the order... So, basically it's this: 1. Shots fired. 2. Special dodge is declared. No smoke on the table, but due to *magic* everyone's OK and alive. 3. Only then smoke appears.
Well, since destroyed Access Scenery items (windows are one of those, right?) are treated as open, so after destroying the window, I was going to try to shoot the guy behind it (and by extension, some other guys who were in the same room because Circular Template, but that's irrelevant to this question).
Open as in can move through it, not draw LOF through unless you could previously has always been my understanding. Thinking about it I'm probably wrong though. It doesn't come up in my meta because you can always shoot through windows. It does for doors, but we simply remove them when they're open.
I think it might help to disassociate the chronology (or lack thereof) of the rules as implemented and the "actual" chronology of the action as it would have taken place. This "simulaneity" of an order (in contrast to the timing of declarations) should make this fairly clear. You are considering a moving model to be in all places along the path at the same time during an order, for instance. This is clearly not how you should imaging things going down on the tabletop once the order is resolved. The aesthetic of Infinity has always made me imagine it playing out in cinematic terms. At the end of an order, I take the actions and results and play them back in a way that makes sense. I imagine, this is how good BatReps are made. Taking your smoke example... Sequence of the order as quoted above. Sequence of what really happened? 1. Reactive Trooper (RT) notices Active Trooper (AT) getting ready to fire. 2. RT tosses smoke before AT can fully line up the shot. 3. AT misses as a result of the smoke filling up the area between them. Change to fit the narrative dictated by the die rolls, if different. ...erm, sorry. This turned out to be a really long off-topic post.
I'd rather not close the windows too - just for simplicity's sake, but our club only picked up on Infinity relatively recently, so most of our terrain is for Warhammer. And tables made with that terrain are really open if one doesn't regard all windows as closed.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to define those “closed windows” on the GW terrain as windows at all. Just agree to treat them as solid walls. You’re better off not having a can of worms, than keeping a closed can of worms around.
From the FAQ for Destroyed state: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Destroyed#FAQ Q: When an Access Scenery Item (a door, for example) enters Destroyed state, is the access point blocked, open or something else? A: The Access point is considered open.
"Open" could mean a lot of things. Given the previous passage, it clearly just means that you can walk through it; it's the only way to not just flat out ignore the text I just posted.
What distinction are you trying to make? Are you claiming that the Destroyed Access can't be seen through?
Why can't it be seen through? The third bullet point for Destroyed doesn't apply as it's an Access Scenery Item, not a Construction Scenery Item.
I still think the issue is that someone looked at a GW gothic cathedral wall or ruin with its numerous holes and thought “We should declare these as access points” instead of “To keep line of sight reasonable, let’s just say you can’t see through these openings in the walls. I’ve got some cardboard or paper we can use if you need to block those off while checking.” It’s just like those tables with the beautiful walkways and railings that you look at and say, and immediately say “No one’s going over there unless we agree that you can’t shoot under the railing, or through the floor grates. Transparent aluminum as needed.”
