If by support you mean “comprehensive FAQ and rules amendments to ensure the game is fully playable”, then no, that wasn’t clear from day 1. While it would have been nice to see more products for Defiance in the future, the lack thereof is not what is bugging current owners the most.
That's fair. I didn't realize what you meant. I thought you were complaining about lack of additional content.
It's hardly absurd, people don't want to do things. Something can be easy and yet too hard at the same time because something else is easier. The path of least resistance is a common effect. My own start with Infinity came down to this. I was looking for a new wargaming hobby and I was split between Malifaux and Infinity. Infinity had dice I was familiar with, Malifaux used a card system I was not familiar with. Infinity had more people playing it and was easier to find someone to play with. I made my choice based on those two things.
I'm just curious - did you play it with other people for more than once? Cause in my local group we keep finding holes in rules and campain missions. Some additional FAQ would be nice (current one is not enough), but seems like they abandoned it. Proof? I doubt anyone sane would be promoting KS campain with "Yep, once it's out you can go f* yourself". They were very vague at best. And I'm not talking about add-ons every 3-6 months (would be nice, but we get what we get). I'm talking about some guy on a forum clear up some rules questions once in a while.
Yes, people are lazy. Yes, sometimes the path of least resistance is the one people take. We have nearly a century of games that demonstrate that people will happily try new games, and will stick with games if the are well designed. Yes, complexity drives some gamers off. It attracts other games. Some players are turned off by any game that uses anything but standard 6-sided dice. Some players are okay with 8 or 10 sided dice. You yourself just said that you weren't interested in one game because it uses cards, and instead decided to try a different game, famous for being MUCH more complicated, which uses non-standard dice, cards, an app, multiple books, a measuring tape, plenty of charts and dozens of tokens full of symbols. Different people like different things. Different people are familiar with different things. For you, cards was too unfamiliar. For a player coming from X-Wing or Magic or Dominion or Frostgrave cards might be much more comfortable than dice. Again, decades of games have shown that symbols, custom dice, cards, tokens and similar things are not a barrier to entry. Putting all of that aside, it should be clear by now that CB is not making games for people who feel like simple symbols and a deal breaker.
As I said earlier, I thought the original comment, which was "Remember Defiance that we abandoned as soon as it got released?" was about continued products in that game line. The OP didn't provide any context for the comment at all, and to me that was the most sensible and obvious interpretation. It turns out I was wrong. Which I already acknowledged.
On one hand I'm interested, but on the other hand if the models look like Aristeia models then I'm not interested. That image of silhouettes does make it look more Aristeia looking, but we will see. A significant portion of the appeal for Infinity models is that it is a unique look in the miniature space that is well executed. The fantasy super heroes thing is just so played out right now. Age of Sigmar really went with that larger than life feel, D&D 5E is basically nothing but Marvel Avengers Superheroes smash. Just my opinion but I think the market is flooded with this style and I think people are just not looking for more of it. How is it going to stand out in appearance from the sea of dungeon crawlers with similar looks.
This, exactly. "No further support" was clearly meant and taken by customers as "no further addons, expansions, store sales, etc, the game is a complete and final product", but not "we're gonna drop an interesting but undercooked, poorly written, horribly edited game with misprinted tiles and then proceed to ignore the need for a deep FAQ and errata, possibly even a rulebook reprint, as well as take a year to replace the misprinted tiles, because we don't give a flying one about not only the quality of the Kickstarter release, but even whether the game is playable at all". This was the cause for much weaker response to the TAG Raid KS and before it's even resolved they announce another KS? Good luck, not my money.
Screen of the last instagram storie from Corvus Belli, no text, I presume it must be from the seminar and I think we have the whole warcrow team. - ? - V, Jesus Fuster (aristeia dev), - Laura new game designer of CB, - Alberto Abal (lead designer ?), I think we can already anticipate the direction of the art, the type of rules, and the writing quality of them. Link: https://www.instagram.com/stories/corvusbelli/2801881408672800205/
Hey, @Koni. Some people say that this time Dungeon Crawler kickstarter will be followed by retail release. Is it true?
@Triumph no offense but if you would have played Aristeia! a couple of games... the symbols are so crystal clear and make sense in every way. It is really an elegant dice system. The only flaw are the blank sides but I wish more games would use these kind of dice which are not just D6 with alternative symbols.
That's what I heard as well - the core box would be available at retail. That and plastic minis makes me think they might be going for wider distribution after it's released.
I'm definitely interested in a fantasy skirmish game. I like Frostgrave but don't like that that different races don't matter and the main character is just the main wizard. I want to essentially play a whole D&D group. At adepticon I saw a few skirmish fantasy games, Relic Blade, Free Blades, Malifaux. The first two used d6 and I was a little bored by them. Freeblades I thought was more complicated than Infinity! Malifaux I've seen and the card system is cool but I'm not into the setting much. CB I think can do better figures than all of them! I didn't see War Cry but I won't touch GW ever again. Besides, I don't like the figures and again I think they use d6. I will not be interested if it's playing the same type of special dice as A! I just don't care for that at all. I don't want to learn a new way to read or do math. Accessibility is very important to me. Also if it's less than say a d10, I'm also not too interested. One of the reasons I like infinity is the d20. I like the variations you can have. d6 and d8 do not allow for much variables. I'm also hoping it's not race-based. I don't want Elves vs. humans vs. dwarves, etc. Been there done that. How about cults, guilds, secret societies, and adventuring groups, those are a little more diverse. However I can understand if some are a majority of a race. It would be cool if it's like my D&D group vs. another D&D group. Better yet, just give us races and classes and we will come up with the factions!
That's what Carlos said at Adepticon. The KS will also be available to retailers. But the TT game will be retail. Also the figures will be plastic. He didn't say what type.
I have played A! the game was ok but it's too basic to hold my attention for long, this is the case for alot of board games. It doesn't change the fact that the symbols don't make shit for sense until you sit down and learn what they do and how the switch system works, which, when you're trying to get new people into a game is a huge issue. I've told my group if Warcrow takes off I'm more than willing to play it, I'm actually keen to play a fantasy based miniatures game (and I need something to keep me the fuck away from WHFB if it ever gets revived). But given that Warcrow will almost certainly be dead on arrival here that's got the stipulation of someone else has to resuscitate it and get a community going because I am not willing to put in all the effort required to get new people into the game past the barrier of stupid weird dice.
As someone who actually has tried Aristeia! a few times, I'm actually with Triumph on this one. It can take a game or so to get used to how the dice symbols add together and resolve actions, plus there's plenty of moving parts (character skills, cards, switches) that can alter the dice pool. Personally I like it, but I have an uncommonly good ability to figure out such systems- I know more than a few people who need D&D 5e's attack rolls explained to them every week, and that's about as simple a system as you can find (they're not idiots; they're better than me at Magic). Every extra step from the familiar can turn people off a game because they just don't have the level of interest to push them past the "figure out how to play" phase. This is going to be an even bigger deal for a wargame due to the significant up-front cost and amount of homework needed to figure out what you need to buy. If Warcrow winds up avoiding the issues that have plagued Infinity recently, I'd be interested, but like Triumph I'd need a community built up around it and I don't even think half the local Infinity players would be willing to pay for and figure out a radically different system.
