Very funny, @cazboab . I get what you mean, but my comment was in the context of ITS play where you don't get the luxury of picking only opponents who can't possibly deliver a serious Hacking threat and need to make lists that can deal with multiple types of attack. Also, just yesterday I spectated a game over TTS where a TAK player managed to stop the assault of a Dakini link and a freakin' Marut with his Wardriver, and last year back in N3 my lone Alguacile I'd taken for Specialist coverage in MRRF managed to Blackout the entire oppossing OSS Hacking force in Transmission Matrix, and that's without getting into the actually-kinda-alright-now N4 Isobel McGregor, so you can't really afford to completely discount the threat of monkeys with typewriters- I mean Ariadnan infowar specialists.
Yeah, @SpectralOwl , it's a rock-paper-scissors deal though, you can't really expect the unit you're taking to defend against hacking to be the just as effective at stopping 1000lb furry monsters... Unless you've deployed everything prone behind cover, you have no MSV, or an ariadna list with 14 orders has you so scared of Van Zant everything is faced backwards, you'll be getting multiple AROS on dog warriors who'll never get cover. "just shoot the dog" is inelegant, but it's also effective...
Paragraph 1? Yes, but this is Infinity, "it's always my turn", I'd like to have options other than "run away" (seriously that's all the unit can do), yadda yadda, you get the idea. I wouldn't mind if the Non-Lethal I(T) interaction just cleared the ammunition and trait effects and left the States alone, or even if Bare Hands still existed, but fielding a full trooper with no options whatsoever is a serious feels-bad. Paragraph 2? If you can find a way to let me shoot down a Dog-Warrior in ARO with my NCA without promptly losing all my key units or their Order supply to an angry Russian in a beret, I would be genuinely indebted to you. That particular matchup feels more "go first or die" than any other I've played in. I get what you're saying though; for most other matchups these days you can get some convenient answers to the Ariadna doctrine. I really feel sorry for USARF in particular, poor Space Americans can't even threaten a good linked HMG to keep the enemy down and give Muttley a chance to do something.
1, yeah, it's a new consideration, if you only bring less lethal you're at a disadvantage, and you shouldn't be deploying a bot with no guns as the front of your AROs if you're expecting Dog Warriors. Plenty of pano repeater bots have guns, maybe consider them? They're a couple points more, but the added versatility should make up for it. 2, Well NCA ain't around yet so there might be something surprising that's better, but I'd suggest that the answer is sort of Squalo shaped and in suppressive fire. Aside from that, there are go first or die matchups. In theory CHA (without some pretty heavy changes) is even more hosed against a wider variety of matchups than NCA, and as you pointed out Go first and/or die is USARF's new moto... Ultra defensive(IE, Boring...) deployment can help with survivability, but that lets the dog warrior roam free... There isn't always an optimal tactic, sometimes you just need to pick the option that sucks least. 'Coarse part of me expects CB to give CHA and NCA the finger with both hands in November, but we'll see...
A "couple points" comes out to more than doubling the cost, but this isn't usually an issue for me- my current go-to lists include a frightening number of REMs, often including at least one of every type PanO can field. It's more the sheer annoyance and boredom that comes with having a troop completely hard-countered and not being able to do anything- just look at the earlier pages of this thread, or any of the I(T)/Plasma ones, for examples of unfun it is to have your troops as vulnerable as anyone else's against one rare class of opposition when it normally enjoys some superiority. Thanks for the pointer about the Squalo, though. I've always been leery of bringing one against APHMG: The Sectorial, but on reflection they're probably safe enough that they can Guts back into cover in most situations. It means I'm going to have to go back to taking the Black Friar tax to not get it eaten by Warbands, but hey, option that sucks least. I suspect NCA will be just fine for most people, CB will probably do something dumb with the Fireteams like let Bolts and the Aquila HMG join Fusiliers and throw in 8 new Mercenaries again. CHA I'm more worried for, though the NCO on Scots Guards seems to show that CB are trying at least, and new active Dodge on things like Wulvers will probably help out.
we saw good buffs for everything that CHA can take from what I am seeing in vanilla. I am hopeful that scots will do better in november. I just hope the mormaers get 4-4 move without a points hike. I am not hopeful about them.
Have you ever considered laying out your thoughts on a subject rather than just sniping impotently at the world like a Joss Whedon character with less charm?
Can we please stop with this passive-aggressive bulls**t? There are four bots that can replace Fugazi. In their cheapest versions: Pathfinder (Combi, 15 pts) Mulebot (Combi, Total Reaction, 19 pts) Peacemaker (Heavy Shotgun, Auxbot with HFT, FD (+8"), 20 pts) Bulleteer (Heavy Shotgun, Mim (-6), 19 pts) So we're looking at a substantially more pricy alternatives, neither of which has much of a chance to stop a Dog Warrior's attack run, anyway. We can argue if a 7 pts bot should have the capability to stop a 20-30 pts unit for a turn, but suggestion to use a more expensive unit for low chance of success and high chance of losing said unit isn't a good argument. Ultimately we'll have to see how it plays out on the table, and if such durable warbands aren't too much to handle.
7 points vs 15 is a lot when you're just looking at the increase, but 8 points for what the pathfinder gains on the fugazi is a bit more tolerable. The mulbot's extra 12 points is probably going to cost you a cheerleader, but it'll save you a comand token putting something in suppressive fire, and you won't be risking whatever you would be doing that with so potentially you'll break even on the orders by not losing whatever that would be. Peacemaker, I'm on the fence with, the extra template from it's helper-bot and it's forward deployment kind of make it the go-to ARO pointman as far as rems go, but if you're trading templates with a dog warrior you're probably not going to be really confident about the outcome. Bulleteer... Yeah I can't think of anything good to say about it against mutts. Airborne rangers, veteran kazaks, marauders, etc, yeah mim-6 is ya boi, but even at 17 points it doesn't have enough of the redeeming qualities of the peacemaker to do the job we're talking about. Thing is though, it's one job. One highly specific job. Not the job the bots are built for now. The dogs are not subtle, and finesse is no longer a viable option when dealing with them. The rock-paper-scissors starts at list building, and it's possible to waste a lot of points dealing with a potential scissors-threat only to find out that your opponent sharpend his rocks. (insert Ariadnan tech joke here....)
It's also predicated on the idea that you weren't already running them. Also, it's not "a couple points more," which is why I said that you don't know what you're talking about.
If you weren't already running them then the whole argument that they're not effective against I(T) is moot... And my apologies, "a couple" is a weird Scottish thing, "a couple" means "some" and doesn't always literally mean 2 just like "hunners" is more than "thousands"...
If you run them it's often for a different reasons than dog watch. When I'm using a Sensor drone it's for dealing with the camo garden in the midfield, not to get a chain rifle to the drone's equivalent of face. I think that a better counter would be a unit with a high damage weapon - like HMG or Mk12 - put into SF. Preferably one with a visor, so Dog Warrior can't just smoke his way in. And in a spot where it won't be possible to attack one from beyond SF range.
Generally, my Dog-Warriors just die to plain'ol gunfire. Most can't get cover, and don't have oppressively high armor values. (The Polaris Team Bearpode being the exception.) Just shoot them a bunch, whatever rolls the most dice. I lost Duroc in a recent game because some Haqq doctor with a Light Shotgun crit in an aro and I failed both of my arm 3 saves. That being said, with the medkit buffs running a Para-Commando paramedic is now a very attractive prospect...
Seriously this. Just shoot them. They'll fail the FTF for their dodge sooner or later, and when they do, the 3-4 ARM that they have combined with their lack of ability to take cover means that they take a wound easier than grunts in cover do, the only difference being that Total Immunity prevents stuff like the multiple armour saves from things like DA.
I am now mad that Isobel doesn't have Hacking Device Plus and I can't say "White Noise goes SHSHSHHSHHSHSHSHSHSHHSHSHSHSH". Also, why the hell does she only have a basic HD at the same SWC and basic cost? Damn.
You really need to start double checking things before you post. Izzy now has both the T2 rifle and Asspistol on the same profile, a useful hacking device, and is 2 points cheaper. She's been significantly buffed.
