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VIRD Team 1 at the Rose City Raid

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    For sure – not a turn 1 OBJ grabber at all. Scoring sabotage/test run on turn 2 or 3, or pushing a button is where he shines. Dropping suppressive afterward is just icing on the cake. That's part of why I always stick him in group 2, generally with my Fugazi who spend turn 1 dropping sniffers.

    VIRD, and PanO in general, has so many other alpha strike stoppers I wouldn't even consider him for the role. But as a solo-specialist who is combat capable when most other options are spent he's pretty dang good. He can also often jump in a link as a back up if need be.
     
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  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Depends on what are your standards for competitiveness. Seeing who is the best to make the most out of his lists but with the fewest variables possible in the whole set up is one way to see it. Seeing who is the best to navigate through the maximum level of randomness is another. Different skills, different outcomes. Humans tend to prefer the first one, natural selection the second. I'm more toward the second too because the first one tend to conduct on the optimised list and once reached, there are very few things that change. The second opens for more possibilities as player personality is a big factor of how the lists will be built and played. So, the player himself is more involved in the outcome than in the first way. If we were searching which army is the best, I think the first option is the good way. If we want to see more about the player, the second one is better.

    That's why I prefer when scenarios rosters and tables go in all directions because, this way, we see who is good, not what is good.
     
  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I suppose my issue with that is that is if I want to play a certain faction / Sectorial (or perhaps I only own one playable force) I'm impacted unfairly compared to a player with a more flexible roster of troops. Highly Classified is perhaps the only mission where I really regret our lack of smoke. Rushing a 1-Wound crappy Specialist into an HVT is a task that becomes much easier with certain tools, and while PanO can usually gunfight their way through problems, it isn't always possible to have enough orders to clear an objective and get a Specialist there. As a result, I think that ignoring Classifieds that are unrealistic (really, Red-mode Predator is the only one) in favor of doubling down on Classifieds where PanO is strong, is a much more effective method.
     
    #23 barakiel, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
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  4. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Except when you're playing MO where most of your Specialists are also 2W troopers with BS14 (13 for Montesa). :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    I don't think you have to rush in order to win HC. VIRD is pretty effective in reactive and your opponent will have to toy your troopers or your HVT 80% of the time and so, will have to come in your half of the table. Even with the red deck, those classifieds are doable for PanO. Just, I think its better to tend to take troopers good at multitasking rather than OTP units. Fireteams mitigate this also: for example, a Squalo in Duo with Patsy is an amazing combo in HC because you have a big gun carrying a trooper who can validate more than 50% of the classified deck and still be a frightening trooper when the big guys is less impressive.
    That's something I learned from MO and from playing 10 orders lists. You have less orders to do the same job but you have the budget to enlist guys able to do more job than what your opponent's troopers could do individually.
    But this might not be in your zone of comfort, so I can see why you don't like this. But thing is, VIRD has nice ways to success in HC, they just aren't popular but, damn, I find them pretty nice to play.
     
  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I can't see 10 Orders with no counter to smoke being effective in Highly Classified. There's nothing to stop an opponent with ~15+ Orders scoring their full range of Classifieds in Turn 1, especially since one smoke grenade allows them to do whatever they want. This is the inherent problem with missions that allow Turn 1 scoring, and have no way to "overturn" or "cancel" an opponent's scoring. High Order lists can (and will) maximize each turn, and 10 order lists (especially lists with limited tactical flexibility) will not be able to prevent that scoring.
     
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  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    IMO Highly Classified is just one big race. The faster you score 3 of your classifieds the more of your orders you can spend killing enemy specialists. MO has a super good spread of specialists to accomplish cards but lack orders and defense to actually make them meaningful. PanO has a disadvantage in HC because it is/can be one of the most non-interactive missions there is. PanO is all about leveraging superior numbers in the FtF
     
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  7. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I don't get where you have seen PanO hasn't counters to smoke :thinking_face:
    ASA has minelayers
    VIRD has Jammers, the best MSV2 ARO piece of the game and easy way to saturate areas of LoF. Plus minelayer and TO infiltrators.
    NCA has MSV2+ and Drop bears in FT and lots of TO.
    MO has MSV2 in FT, Drop bears and TO infiltrators.

    I think I rather know what I'm talking about. I played against SP with MO on HC and scored a tie while this army might be the best to grab all the classifieds turn 1, even better than Tohaa thanks to stealth.

    The biggest counter to smoke is orders. The more your opponent will need to throw smokes the less he'll have to make his classifieds. Kill the guys who will do the mission and then do it yourself.
    I don't think it is a good idea to rush it in PanO. Festina lente is my motto for this mission and it rarely failed me.
     
  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I was talking specifically about MO, and none of the counters you mentioned are particularly effective against an opponent taking first turn. That's part of the problem. It's a big reason why I play the other three Sectorials instead.

    @MikeTheScrivener
    I think that's a good assessment of HC.
     
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  9. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I hardly see how MSV2 isn't a counter to smoke...
    Maybe this comes from our tables being different but I never found HC to be 100% sold at the first turn. I had played ASA lists able to do this on the paper with 15 orders. The truth on the field is far from what suggests theory. In 16 orders, if your opponent succeeds to secure 2 classifieds on the first turn, he is already doing good. So, killing those who can do the rest and preserve yours will be enough if you play it for 3 turns.
     
  10. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member

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    Good report.
    Was this terrain really ultra dense for your meta? It looks normal or even open for me.(especially 1st table because of high buildings in deployments and also 2nd, 4th and 5th tables)
     
  11. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

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    Rose City Raid had a healthy mix of terrain density. The main difference was the use of terrain rules on all the tables. This could easily change a table that looks open to being far more survivable, like in the case of forested areas being low vis and saturation zones. There were also terrain types that would hinder movement, which would funnel troops toward a more advantageous route.
     
  12. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, understand. But low vis or saturation or diff terrain don't bother enemy sniper trying to kill your "close range shooters".
    And such tables with presence of rare terrain rules, which I really love, are still open and change nothing in gameplan and playstyle. (Just minor multiterrain and msv improvements in your armylists)
     
  13. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

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    Granted a sniper is always going to have a chance at taking out a close range fighter, but without the perk of link team burst bonus the chance of survival is pretty good comparatively. Many players who were use to defensive links were suddenly faced with the very real potential that could lose their SWC profiles to things with similar range bands AND active turn burst on their side. If they hide the link, then they end up getting hit by a strong alpha strike profile or warbands. So terrain can have a cascading effect on tactics that influence the entire game.
     
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