That was why I took the tinbot - to account for the 0.5SWC :) I built my ORC Kamau and fusilier list from army so didn't see/use the sectorial profiles. At the end of the day we don't know everything about ORCs / Patsy or even Kamau as there have clearly been changes since we saw a possible sectorial profile for Kamau back in gencon 2017 (such as wildcard and mixed links). it was a game to test how things might fit together in general not specifics. Once the full sectorial drops with all points, skills and profiles then of course I will be making accurate lists, but for a friendly play test using the concepts we are being introduced to I stand by my decision to experiment to get a feel for how a mixed haris could operate together fully in the knowledge the profiles might not be the right ones.
Now I'm thinking it might be good to build towards something like this: Group 1 ORC Feuerbach Kamau MSV Sniper Fusilier LT Fusilier Fusilier Fugazi Fugazi Zulu Cobra SMR Zulu Cobra Sensor/Jammer Zulu Cobra FO Group 2 Kamau HMG Kamau Haris Kamau Paramedic Helot SMG Helot SMG Helot SMG
I think that's a good list, though I'd be tempted to ditch the Haris and just take the HMG backed by Orders (and a Trauma Doc!) 3 Orders for 3 Kamau seems light!
Another long write up, TL:DR summary at the end again. So I got another game in, this time with a different opponent playing Ikari. Mission was Capture and protect. I ran a list that was mostly the same however I dropped the Haris from last time and ran a Montessa paramedic, Echo Bravo Red Fury and Echo Bravo LRL. The Montesa would be my data tracker to try and speed in and reach the beacon in round 2 or three, round 1 would be used to bring in the Echo bravos to clear a route with the crocman if available. The Link would provide ranged fire support, the Zulu cobras would defend the objective and the Helots would be there to cover the link and the zulu cobras from the inevitable Yuan Yuans that would be coming. So the list was... Group 1 Montesa Paramedic Echo Bravo Red Fury Echo Bravo LRL Kamau Sniper Fusilier Missile Launcher Fusilier Paramedic Fusilier Fusilier Zulu Cobra Sensor Lt Zulu Cobra KHD Group 2 Zulu Cobra Shock Marksman Rifle Crocman Minelayer Helot LRL+SMG Helot LRL+ SMG Round 1 I lost deployment and was first to deploy. I then decided to really stress test Varuna and decided to go second so I had the worst case scenario. Sure enough I wasn't disappointed, he started dropping in Yuan Yuans. The first dropped in out of LOF but with the clear intention of going for my link. The second dropped down near the beacon but a nearby mine from the Crocman minelayer took care of him on arrival. He immediately dropped in another in the same spot and I jammed him with the first zulu cobra through a wall. A 4th Yuan Yuan was attempted but he failed in roll and scattered off the board, deploying back in his DZ. So he chose to use his Yuan yuan closest to the beacon, which although isolated still had his irregular order. He moved him in and the zulu cobra was now visible out of camo. My choice was to try and take him out and save the armour save and dodge but still have him being a threat in my turn. I chose to dodge knowing the yuan yuan would get no further orders to try and steal the beacon but I failed the dodge and then the save from the chain rifle and went unconscious Now the second Yuan Yuan moved towards the link with enough of an angle to chain rifle the fusilier ML. I dodged with the link and engaged the Yuan Yuan with a Helot. This was a much better use of the Helot than my previous game and this time the Yuan Yuan went straight to dead. Still pushing his attack with the Yuan yuans the final one that had come on in his DZ now started moving up. On that side of the board it was just a Warcor, Krakot and Yuan Yuan with nothing but templates and a lot of open ground to cover to get in range to attack. I decided to use my shock marksman zulu cobra to react to this, but missed. He managed to get smoke down though and then used that to move the krakot up a bit but didn't have the orders to push the attack any more without getting shot at by the zulu cobra in unfavourable circumstances (he was now in my +3 range band rather than flats before). That x-visor works so nicely on this unit! Switching tactics he brought on a cube Jager and I chose to ARO with the hidden crocman who was actually very close to the isolated yuan yuan (though behind him and out of LOF). The crocman scored a hit and the cube jager went down. With his initial wave of attacks using all sorts of air deployment done he wasn't able to do much. Interestingly he had positioned his link, also with ML and a sniper, directly opposed to mine so that whoever activated their link first would receive 2 powerful AROs. He didn't want to do this first and so with little achievable with his remaining orders he put a few units on suppression and actually chose not to use his final 2 orders. I'd not only survived the Alpha strike but caused him to stop his attack early! So first thing I did was move the crocman in to the main pool with the zulu cobra as it was clear he was going to be needed. The marksman cobra then opened up on the long range yuan yuan who was now in the open after his smoke disappeared. The warcor got an ARO as well so I split the shots and sent one at the warcor, the remaining 2 at the yuan yuan who failed to put down any more smoke and went to dead thanks to the shock ammo. Missed the warcor though. I now used my crocman to idle and put 3 rounds in to the back of the isolated yuan yuan threatening my beacon and sent him to unconscious. I now decided I wanted him dead so used the helot that had revealed himself earlier, moved him around the corner a bit and shot him to death. What else was I going to use that irregular order for? :D The crocman turned out to be in LOF of the warcor and so I decided to start moving up and try to take out the warcor as I moved. It took a couple of attempts but finally the warcor was removed (they're tough!). The crocman was now up against the building that the enemy beacon was located in but I decided to hold there for now. Now the warcor was gone and the first part of the route was clear I used my montesa to move up a bit and take on the Krakot from earlier. he took him out at flats from about 12-14" away, safely outside of the krakots template range. I now brought on the first Echo bravo with red fury and with another order managed to move him along the side of a crate to see the ML tanko. Thankfully I was just inside 24" so limiting him to 'flats' and me being on +3 which equalled us out bonuses wise after cover was involved. Both wanting 13's but 4 dice against 2, I scored a hit but he made the save. A second attempt however ended up with the ML scoring a hit on the bravo and he disappeared in a cloud of smoke from the explosive hit. with my last remaining order I moved the crocman to the corner of a building and placed a mine to help stop the attack that was about to come. Round 2 So we started with him using a brawler (I think) to try and take on the crocman. Out of range for the mine and in cover I was hitting on flats (13) but with the TO and my cover with the SMG he was actually hitting on 2s I think. He lost and went unconscious. He now tried a wu ming who had shotgun. He was just out of 8 for the crocman but the mine was just able to hit! The crocman hit but didn't do anything, the mine however took a wound. He now charged another unit at the crocman, I can't remember what it was but it had a shotgun. There was a bit of a back and forth firefight between the two for 2 orders before he went unconscious. He clearly realised the threat of this crocman and wanted it neutralised so he made another attempt with the wu ming. This time he scored a hit and the crocman fell back allowing him to move up freely. He charged his wu ming up and out in to the open and this time succeeded in killing the crocman but was in complete view of the fusilier ML and sniper and went bye bye. So I've lost the only piece in his half but I have my data tracker and he's just lost his (the wu ming). Firstly I again move the ZC shock marksman in to the main pool bumping up my order count then start thinking about what I need to do. If I want to get my Montesa towards the objective I need to deal with that link. I start by bringing on the second Echo Bravo and move him to the same place the last one was. Again I attack with the LRL and this time score a nice crit plus a second hit. That tanko burnt to crispy fried chicken. I now take full advantage and finally activate my link now that the mexican standoff between the links is broken and open up with the sniper on the sniper. He's no longer got +3 BS and the Kamau's extra die and BS come in to play, scoring 2 hits on DA and his sniper is now gone. I start moving up the montesa and have to dismount to get through the terrain. I'm considering trying to revive the crocman but when he tries to use his AHD in ARO it's clear that while I'm out of ZOC at the moment I won't be if I try to revive the crocman in B2B and I don't fancy shooting a medpack. Instead I sneak up the side of the building, pop in through the door and grab the beacon before running out the door hoping that I can avoid the ARO hit. Unfortunately I don't and take a wound but I now have the beacon! I use my last orders to get him as far away as possible but it's not going to be far enough, it's just about having to make him work for it. I decide to use my Lt order on the Cobra that's still in camo and move him up ready for the next round to either support the Montesa or reclaim the beacon. Finally I reposition the Helot to try and help cover the montesa a little through a narrow firelane that might catch someone trying to get through. Round 3 He's only got a few orders left. He first tries to use his Brawler AHD to chase down the Montesa but as soon as he is in LOF he loses the f2f and the brawler. He then goes for a hail mary and the Wardriver with a shotgun comes charging forwards! he manages to save 1 hit from the montesa and then closes within 8" on the last order and score a hit! Montesa goes unconscious. The Helot fails to hit but the fusilier ML doesn't and the wardriver disappears. That's at least a saving grace because he's out of orders and I have my last turn with the route now completely open for the Cobra lt to grab the beacon unopposed. I spend 5 of my regular orders and a Lt order on the cobra to bring the beacon back in to my own DZ. With my last 2 orders I use my fusilier ML to take out a final unit that he can just get a LOF on with a little moving now he doesn't have to worry about being shot back just to reduce his VP a little further. End result 7-0 win THOUGHTS (TL:DR) 1) Yes I'm really liking Zulu Cobras. 2) He chose deployment that left me with more open ground than he had, limiting my deployment options. The camo options available in Varuna definitely helped counter that issue. 3) Helots can be very capable if used correctly. In my first game I used them like TR ARO pieces, not really thinking about the f2f rolls. This time one never came out of camo but the other saved the link, finished off another model and was providing some opportunistic long range AROs at the end. So thinking of them as Total Reaction AROs isn't quite right, thinking of them as cover pieces for key units like link teams, TAGS and objectives makes much better use of them. 4) We really do seem to have limited data tracker options at the moment for missions where the data tracker is scoring you OP by completing the missions. 5) We are very strong defensively from what I've seen so far but our attacks seem to rely a little too much on fragile troops if we focus on new stuff. It only takes 2 or 3 failed armour saves with some units and you can be struggling to push the attack. I think this might be where we need to stop focusing on the new stuff so much and remember to embrace some PanO tried and tested - efficient combat remotes, TAGS and using the ORCs who can survive that (un)lucky shot and keep going. Mission dependant obviously. 6) The new classifieds feel like they are impossible to plan for and hard to achieve at the moment. When we are running lists mostly made of skirmisher and light infantry we will even struggle to complete the ones that don't need specialists but MI or HI.
Thanks for the great write-up! I really agree that ORCs are starting to bring something useful, specifically that their durability really helps address the points you bring up in 4, 5 and 6 above. I haven't tried ORCs in my practice games yet since I don't know enough about their new changes. Running all 1-Wound lists so farfhas made me eager to include a 2-Wounder with solid ARM to help with Datatracking.
I guess you could say that the Orc is the BEST Heavy Infantry IN Varuna! ;) NCA has the Swiss Guard... MO has Joan... ASA has Guarda de Assaulto... ...and VIRD has the mighty Orc! Lol, JK... It looks like Orcs may get some more use in Pano with Varuna etc.
It has long been argued that the problem with the ORC is not that it's not a good HI, but instead that it just doesn't shine compared to all the flash options it is stacked up against. I do not share that opinion, but if it's going to be true anywhere then it has to be Varuna.
In some ways, sure. But that comparison actually highlights all the problem with the ORC. Fusiliers offer solid BS on a cheap platform with a wide range of options which are useful a low points cost. ORCs offer an expensive platform for (on an HI) middling BS with limited equipment and weapon options, many of which are counter-synergistic and are hurt badly by their weaknesses being the precise things which hunters of their "type" target. The ability to drop a single ORC into a Fusilier Fireteam is amazing, and the fact that it's not being treated as literally the best thing ever (for Fusiliers AND ORCs) really only speaks to how amazing Kamau are (and, so far, lack of familiarity with the same option in Acon).
Are we talking about from a game design perspective, or how in terms of lore? VIRD lore rumors are hinting that the ORC corps on Varuna is much more special-forces aligned than ORCs in other settings, like Acon or NeoTerea.
I was speaking from a design POV there. ORCs are the generic, basic HI trooper. Fusiliers are the generic basic LI trooper.
I'd argue Alguaciles are actually the "core template" for Line Infantry. But *shrugs*, it doesn't change my response at all.
So I think Ive settled on my Initial VIRD list I want to try, I have firefight and Decap in mind for this list and im thinking of something like this. Potential change is to swap the HMG orc out for the Fuerbach but I dont yet have the pts knowledge on that one so HMG it is. This thing is throwing out a LOT of long range hatred VIRD ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ZULU COBRA Lt JAMMER Assault Pistol Sensor (0 | 29) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) GROUP 26 SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) HELOT Shock Marksman Rifle Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) HELOT Shock Marksman Rifle Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ECHO BRAVO Boarding Shotgun Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 25) 6 SWC | 298 Points
Cool unit selection. Hadn't thought about the Sierra much, I admit. Been so eager to try out the Snake Eaters, have barely touched the combat REMs. Need a Hacker, yeah?
I think Patsy, whatever her final form is, may end up being a bit of a lynchpin for a lot of VIRD players given the need for a couple of multiwound models.
