Yeah, I know, right? Just being able to take more than 5 Fusiliers feels like total freedom, but that AND mixed teams with Kamau? The only pity is that, yet again, the poor ORC ends up being second fiddle because a Kamau HMG is more effective against most targets (anything without MSV) and far cheaper. The higher armour and second wound will be worthwhile if your meta runs a lot of MSV equipped Fireteams 'though.
Everything's still tentative of course, but I'm leaning the same way with Kamau vs ORCs. With Bagh Mari vs ORCs, there's a clear delination in roles: Bagh Mari gives you MSV1, Mimetism, but is clearly very slow and changes the role of the link in a big way. BS12 vs BS14 starting is significant. With Kamau vs ORC though... Both 4-4, BS13 vs 14, with Mimetism as a tipping point. The VIRD ORC role that I really like is the Fuerbach. In my pile of practice games so far, VIRD units obviously chew up light opposition like nothing else in the game, but I can see them struggling to crack massively hard targets. My hot tournament season isn't until February of 2019, so I'm starting to look ahead towards it and plan. A big part of that is that folks do indeed bring TAG lists, Heavy Infantry links, and other skews that do require some serious firepower to crack. Since VIRD can't rely on some of the cheap-all rounder tricks like melee warbands, a monofilament dude, or a cheap AP high-burst gun, we will have to think a bit about how we solve those problems. Breaker Combis on Cobras is pretty good, but I do see the appeal of a Fuerbach ORC just so I can "check the box" for firepower. Other thoughts: The cheap cost of the Kamau HMG really does allow for Fusiliers to take some secondary weapons pretty easily. I still like the notion of the Fusilier missile... Tried and true, and you can't argue with 15 points. Depending on mission too, the Fusilier LGL has appeal. I never used the LGL much in NCA because the 5-man link bonus goes away very quickly. But in VIRD, you can count on your Fusiliers always have 5-man link bonuses, and the LGL is very inexpensive. The Croc FO will continue to have a very good place. Cobras are a great unit, I've really enjoyed what I've learned from them so far, but they're not a substitute for full Infiltration, mines, and Hidden Deployment. I think there will be lists that use them and lists that don't. Still rabidly curious about the ORC character. She remains a significant unknown factor in how VIRD will build and play.
Yeah, I agree 100%. I am not seeing myself leaning towards the ORC HMG option often at all. The Kamau is simply going to be better (as well as far more cost efficient) most of the time. But MSV fireteams ARE a thing (and becoming a more common thing) and MSV ARO units already were a thing, so I think that will be at least a little meta dependent. Yeah, the Feuerbach ORC in a Fireteam is going to be a solid anti-armour option. It'll be ESPECIALLY great if it squeaks in at under 2 SWC, but even at that cost it's likely going to be one of the best "egg-crackers" that VIRD is going to have available (without going all the way up to a Cutter, especially). Yeah, there's enough space in terms of free SWC there to pull in a Missile Launcher as well IF you aren't going to be too SWC heavy elsewhere. And running it instead of the Fusilier HMG is another solid backup option, just a more defensive one. We will see them a lot I expect. But it's great that they won't be basically compulsory! That IS one of the big unknowns. She may be amazing... But then I look at all our other characters... Yeah.
Comparing to my current Acon lists, I'm really enjoying the ORC leading 4 regulars. hitting WB on 20s is a really nice way to say "F*ck you" to an ARO smoke dodge. being able to just shoot through a TR bot without marksmanship is also really nice. Arguably the Kamau can do these things just as well if not better for a cheaper points cost. but possibly my favorite thing about the ORC is the ability to take a critical on the chin and keep on going. Theres also something to be said about a ARM 4, 2 wound, EXP ammo ARO piece.
Sure, and I 100% agree with @barakiel that the Bagh Mari v ORC comparison is going to fall in favour of the ORC more often. But while I respect the ORC far more in the mixed Fireteam, I don't think it's going to be the first choice in Varuna. Quite apart from speed, the cheaper SWC cost on the Kamau is going to be critical a lot of the time. That Feuerbach though? Yeah, that's going to be pretty damn sweet.
Contemplating Fusi core (with ORCs) and Kamau haris (with Patsy?)... but we need to see what Patsy is like.
Well, I think the Kamau Haris is going to be an interesting "back pocket support" option no matter what you run as your Core. Especially because the 1 SWC cost on the Kamau HMG makes it cheaper than most other Haris choices to throw down B5 spam.
thats true, the 1 SWC price tag is very hard to beat. another factor may be a profile with tactical sense and how that interacts with the link team. another thing to keep in mind is the ORC is only one of three Veteran/elite troops in the sectorial, the other two are an expensive motorcycle and a camo trooper.
Hunting Party with Varuna is going to be very interesting now that we have access to a camo LT with an ADHL, and 2 other camo troopers that get ADHLs.
the classification is also pertinent for the new classified cards, and we will be especially stretched because Varuna has no medium infantry
A Hsien in a haris has respectable odds for a 2W trooper against a linked Kamau. Active Player 47.09% Hsien inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 19.15% Hsien inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 25.61% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 27.29% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Hsien (1 W) 10.49% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Hsien (Unconscious) 1.77% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 3 or more wounds on Hsien (Dead) But it looks a little uncomfortable unlinked: Active Player 41.50% Hsien inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 13.87% Hsien inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 27.40% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 31.10% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Hsien (1 W) 12.27% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Hsien (Unconscious) 2.26% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 3 or more wounds on Hsien (Dead) 40% to 30% win rate with a 68% chance for your order to do nothing or worse. But that's specifically an MSV2 HI with an HMG. Your poor old ORC HMG is having a bad time: Active Player 31.09% Orc Troops inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau (MSV 2) (Unconscious) 7.67% Orc Troops inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau (MSV 2) (Dead) Failures 26.49% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 42.41% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Orc Troops (1 W) 18.00% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Orc Troops (Unconscious) 4.11% Kamau (MSV 2) inflicts 3 or more wounds on Orc Troops (Dead)
What he said, That Kamau Sniper is going to be deadly. It has counters, of course, but otherwise arguably one of the scariest ARO pieces in the game. My default link will be the Kamau Sniper, Kamau HMG and at least 4x Fusiliers to fill in the gaps. When the Sniper dies you just change gears and send the HMG forwards (or leave them behind if the Sniper doesn't die). Curious about the Feurback ORC. Pretty rare to see a 2 SWC Feurbach, Teucer's is when you give him MSV2 and apparently a Caliban (Shasvaasti Camo trooper) is SWC2 but if the Azra'il and Sogarat are both 1.5, surely the ORC will be, too? If you were really keen, you could even add him into your Fusilier link with the Sniper (but then that's 4 SWC in a single link).
And ? VIRD is actually one of the best factions when it comes to non-SWC weapons acting like one (Zulu Cobra Sniper Assault Pistol, or CrocMen Sniper Combi Rifle). Not to mention VIRD as only PanO sectorial can use 0.5 SWC to buy some weapons.
to be fair, no one is going to engage a Kamau sniper with an unlinked ORC. I was more referring to something like an Aquila, which has far greater chances, albeit slightly less than the linked hsien. Obviously it will probably take more than one order to deal with – that's kind of the point. It would be a pretty lousy ARO piece if it crumpled like paper on the first HMG volley. I'm not saying the Kamau is bad by any means, just not unbeatable. An easy way to deal with the Kamau is with an MSV2 spitfire in the 8-16 band. Something like a Yoagat Harris/core can pretty easily take it out with 1 or 2 orders of shooting.
I'm pretty sure the FB will be 1.5. it would be criminal if it wasn't. It seems like in VIRD our SWC heavy pieces will be our ARO pieces and our offensive are all cheap or even 0. Red fury on the Echo Bravo, HMG on the Kamau, SMR on the Zulu. it will be a really interesting fit for all of these pieces to come together, im curious to see if I'll end up having any extra to spare on the Helots, although the SMR on them is really hard not to take because at a baseline it's one of his best profiles. I think for me, the main link of my lists will almost always have 3.5-4 of the SWC.
In the lists I've built so far, I find the SWC fits very easily. Even something like 2 HMGs, an MSR, and two LRL Helots doesn't cap your SWC. Can't say it enough... The 1 SWC on the Kamau HMG is amazing. I look back at the pile of lists I've built so far, and most of them would break if the Kamau HMG were 1.5.
Well I was just using your example of a Hi hmg. Turns out you need msv to stand a chance and ideally a 2w model to account for variance. Or a linked hi. And no one is expecting it to go down in one order, but nothing happening is a great outcome in the reactive turn. There are no invulnerable aro pieces, but if if the answer isnt something every list will have, or is so expensive as to only allow a one of, then it's still a great investment.
Yeah, I think that a Tohaa Triad with a MSV Spitfire and Eclipse (for closing the gap) inside 16" is going to be one of the strongest answers. That Haris with the Hsien is pretty solid too. But overall the Kamau MSV2 + Mimetism Multi-Sniper in a full Fireteam Core is going to be a challenge demanding "alternative" approaches.
