This is probably a very common, old but current question, how to deal against camouflaged/DDO profiles… but this time in VIRD. There is different kind of camos regarding camouflage levels and the types of models that use them. But in general terms I could identify three different levels: 1. Midfield killers: Like Dart, Ryuken, noctifers, ninjas 2. Specialists: Likes Nagas, Mailgnos, Noctifers, ninjas, foxtrots and 3. “deadly miniatures”: Swiss Guard, Hac Tao, Sphinx, Avatar, Achiles, Shinobu, Oniwabans among others. And finally also exists camo spam, its means armies that use camuflage as basic strategy like TAK or Shasvastii. So, how to deal with all of this kind of camufleged miniatures?, Do you have some ideas for VIRD? I’ll share some of mine. 1. The most obviuos alternative is Kamau sniper This miniature has the pontential to condition the strategy of your rival (avoid the sniper, or concentrate on eliminating it as a priority objective, etc.), and is specialy deadly for almost all type of camos. However it is not enough to control all of these profiles o stop an army becuase it will be very expose (as ARO piece) and is very vulnerable against HMG or any weapon with high burst. It will be attenuated by supported the sniper with another ARO pieces like the excellent Helots or the ORC Feuerbach (I'm not sure about this but I've seen it), however this does not guarantee that it fulfills its objective in the table, probably Kamau sniper will die. So, it could be used only as camo hunter? And use another ARO Piece like ORC with Feuerbach? Or is optimal to use two Kamau sniper one in a core and another in a Haris/alone? What do you think about that?. 2. Another good option is Zulu cobra sensor + fugazzis. This is not very expensive, and could be useful to reveal long areas if is combined with the remotes. One possible option is to have for example two fugazzis in group 2, and use a coordinate order to move them and position sniffers, and then use the zulu to reveal an area if necessary (also you could include the zulu in the coordinated order if you have it in the same group). Other option is the use of Jammer as intuitive attack and witohut LoF with the camo, and also triangulated fire. Both them could be combined with surprise attack. Triangulated fire could be used in a nimbus plus zone generatede by Patsy, but is more tricky because you need to plan it very well (and could invlove several orders). these movements can be very good, but the triangulated attack may not be very efficient against TAGs or HI because of its high armor. Can you think of other uses for the zulu sensor? 3. Other option is use crokcman with mines: Minilayer/foward observer/assault hacker. Mines are natural enemies against CAMO, and you have the advantage of not deploying the crock man, so you rival must speculate if there is a Crockman and where it will be. So deploy mines in very important and specific zones in the table could be useful to protect this area. 4. Another option is use an ORC or Kamau boosted by a Core. If you are shooting with a 19 or 20, the ” malifiers” may not be so harmful to you. But if you face another profile with mimetism in a core, this could be dangerous. For example an ORC vs a Veteran Kazak, in this condition surprisingly the Vetran “goes” better than the ORC (if both carry a linked HMG). 5. The direct templates are very effective against camos, but in this case VIRD we only few options like the pacemaker and bipandra. In the case of pacemaker it is possible to deploy it toghether with zulus and make it work together. but is only burst 1 in the small auxbot which is very vulnerable. Also is very important to understand how all this tools could act together in a list and achieve good synergies against camos… What options have you used? How have you played against armies with a lot of camo (Camo spam)? Finally, how do you counteract a TAG with camouflage or DDO like the Sphinx or the Avatar? sorry for my english ... Thanks
I think you listed most of the options there. Between the Kamau MSV2 and the Zulu Cobra Sensor, you basically have two of the best anti-Camo units anywhere. Against a tougher target, hard to say. Unless your opponent made a bad mistake, your Sniper will probably never get a shot at those targets. If you do get a shot, it might be worth it to apply Stun so you can press the attack against a defenseless TAG. The Wild Parrot is also very, very easy to apply, but it's only a single hit, so is unreliable. Scoring a Fire hit with an HRL or peacemaker auxbot helps tremendously, then you can follow up with an SMG or Breaker. The Zulu Cobra Killer Hacker is a good insurance piece... BS13 Camo Breaker can open up tough targets if you spend the orders to maneuver and catch a TAG out of cover .
I’m a fan of the ZC Sensor profile for fighting camo because it has so many other uses. If you don’t run into camo, that’s fine. It still has a jammer, triangulated fire, surprise shot combi, and it’s cheap. If you do see camo, you are revealing on 19s with the sensor sweep and then can triangulated fire with the assault pistol to kill without suffering the penalties for camo. Or if it’s a dangerous unit that the ZC can’t deal with solo, then bring in the Kamau sniper or an Auxbot. I would actually separate out your last category (Swiss, Hac Tao, Avatar, Cutter, Sphinx, etc) because fighting them is unlike fighting other camo units. Most camo units are simple sweep-n-kills, fighting an Avatar demands a plan.
Exacticly @MrNailbrain That was my idea, separate the type of Camo... The Zulu-sensor is most useful against all one-wound camo, like specialist or "midfield" killers, but what about Hac Tao, Achiles, Sphinx or Avatar?... In the league that I'm playing now I had to face Achilles, and it was very difficult, at the end I kill the guy but the cost was very high, I attack with jammer, with Patsy in a Haris, helots and Kamau sniper in different moments of the game to finally defeat him.. I won the game but it was very hard... But I don't see other option that multiple and combined attacks... @barakiel at one moment (probably in whit noise) suggest the use of triagulated fire and nimbus plus, it is very useful, but the Dam. of assault pistol ( in the case fo zulu sensor) is only 13 so is difficult to inflict wounds to HI or TAGs but is possible, other option that he suggest is place a wild parrot in a nimbus zone, although it may result, I find it difficult to do... So my conclusion was a fight of attrition with multiple AROs and trust in your dice
It seems like you’ve got a grasp of anti camo. I’m a big fan of the Croc Man Assault hacker for those heavy targets. Assault hackers tend to be vulnerable, but hidden deployment can mitigate that quite a bit. Especially if you can lure that heavy hitter to go for a juicy target like a Kamau sniper. Being able to possess or lock down your opponent’s TAG is huge. Isolation ruins heavy infantry pretty quickly. Theoretically, I like Zulu Cobras. Damage 13 isn’t great, but if you can be industrious about you placement and keep him out of LoF and get a couple of jam attempts, your opponent is forced to reset, wasting half an order, or risk an unopposed jammer. Best option is see though is a cutter. Damage 16ap rounds from a bs15 TO platform is even slightly better than a Swiss Guard. That’s saying a lot.
I never said there is a problem, I just ask how everybody deal with that to have more ideas :). For instance, the use of crockman assault hacker that @yoink101 propouse is a good reminder of the use this profile against CAMO ( and any) HI or TAG. And also applying malifiers to your rivals plus good weapons and good BS as the case of the Cutter can be a good plan also.
When using sensor you can only add a single deployed sniffer to the sensor area, correct? Or are all sniffers included in the sensor area similar to repeaters?
All deployed Sniffers. http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Sensor SENSOR AREA A trooper's Sensor Area is the Area of Effect of his Sensor Special Skill, and it comprises both his Zone of Control (ZC) and the Zones of Control of allied Sniffers.
Wow I missed that part. Always thought it was a little odd that it didn’t work like a repeater. Thanks for the clarification.
I was looking at the new shasvastii and it comes full on camos, TO, DDO, and now with 3 visor options (N1 and N2) and even albedo + visor N2 (Gwalio) ... now I really question how to lead against Shasvastii ... Kamau sniper can now be the victim of a missile from a Gwalio, with no possibility of answering, that could lead you to put another ARO piece as a Kamau HRL or an ORC Feuerbach, to protect the Kamau sniper the first turn at least, this is expensive and also they would have to lead against TO / DDO penalties. Sometimes I think it is not enough to discover them with a good sensor (the camos still apply the -3 to -12 when shooting them) or attack them with a jammer (the chances of losing the roll are high) or triangulated fire. I feel that a visor was missing in a weapon with more burst (for active turn). I was thinkning that Patsy with nimbus + triangulated fire could be very useful. And even Onyx has 3 visor now, of these two N2 and one of these in the hands of the excellent Ko dali... Finnally today I saw a game of the new shasvastii against Aleph and it was brutal, shasvastii is very powerful. Am I overreacting? Hahaha!
... The Kamau Sniper has Sixth Sense L2, if someone shoots him through White Noise, he shoots back with no downsides. The only thing that really does is that your opponent can ignore the Kamau and walk up and try to take other Link members out. The ZC Sensor seems brutal against Shas. Helots and their (Fire) templates also do nasty things to them. Overall you should be on even ground with Varuna vs Shasvastii as long as you focus on bringing more pieces instead of something big like a Cutter, Squalo or Orcs. Shas are terrifying for armoured targets.
It doesn’t look like any of the Shasvastii MSV’s are 5-man linkable, so you’re Kamau Snipers will still have fire superiority. Once you clear the path you’re going to want to get your closer range units who can handle camo into the midfield ASAP, such as Cobras. Units that can start midfield are going to be strong here as well, such as Crocs with intuitive mines which are great vs. camo units and Armbots + Auxbot flamethrower for frying Camo apparatuses.
The big thing will be keeping the Sheskiin and the mine delivery systems off the MSV2. The power she can project if you keep her safe is fierce. But Zulu Cobras to go hunting, especially if you can get to the backline of REMs and support stuff, will have a big impact. Shas will be pretty tight on orders, so everything you kill will be felt pretty significantly by your opponent.
Thanks @Teslarod , ingenuously I had completely forgotten the sixth sense L2... linked the Kamau sniper is solid. What I do not finish to understand is why the ZC sensor is so strong against camos, is it for the sensor? or by the jammer? and/or Triganulated fire?. ther are all good but the consume lot of orders (anyway for that they are :-)) The Helots are great but I don't know how useful could be against camo or TO due to its BS. And it is true that we must use of the anti-camo contingent like the pacemaker and / or crockman. As @barakiel said, the linked sheskiin is also amazing and a great problem, but I agree that she has to reach half the table to be lethal, then there is time to counteract it, and if not use the ZC/ECho/Bulleteer to disarm the link or to remove orders Any idea how include a group of anti-camo profiles in a list? Varuna Immediate Reaction Division ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) CROC MAN (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) 3 SWC | 173 Points Open in Infinity Army this is just an initial idea ,to see what do you think ....
I think the best way to gut sheskin is to use the boarding shotgun croc. Have him hide in an opportune place and wait for the fireteam to move in such a way as to catch as many of them under the template. It's not about killing her, so much as her friends. Cut the burst and bonuses and she becomes more manageable. Shell still rampage the rest of her turn, but she should be down 3 orders if your dice hold. Otherwise, crocs setting up to pair ambushes against her to cause her to split burst. Minelayer crocs will be even more valuable to time mine + aro and to disrupt efforts to kill ZCs. In short, crocs will become more necessary with the level of BS that shas will try to pull on you. Varuna's main strength is really in its wetwork crew, not the backline.
The Zulu is good against camo because it can discover reliably with sensor, outshoot much of Shasvastii with bs13, and outshoot most of the rest with triangulated surprise shots. He is order intensive to use, so deployment and efficiency are really important. But that’s what practice is for. I also particularly like the marksman rifle as a striker. He can’t discover as well, but he’s brutally effective for 25 points.
Absolutely! the ZC marksman rifle (MR) is very effective. Actually, this is my actual problem because is difficult to choose between one ZC KHD plus two ZC sensors or one ZC kHD + one sensor + one MR.. I also try 2 ZC sensors + 1 ZC MR and 2 Crockman specialists (FA and AHD), but it was very expensive... Also, I would like to know how you folks deal against speculo killer minelayer.... What do you do If she deploys inside of your DZ, probably deploying a mine close to the fireteam and trying to hunt the Kamau sniper.... How to counteract that possible attack?
Put a Helot close to the Kamau. The minelayer rules do not allow to deploy a mine in the trigger area of a camo marker. Even if another target is in the trigger area.
