1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Very disappointed with Ramah TaskForce

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by SirNando, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Cheap CAMO units, yes those are missed. Where QK have Al'hawwa, and HB have Farzans, we have AD or expensive TO. I do not see this as a huge issue though. Mukhtar Forward Deploy, and the "Ghulam" link can fight out of the DZ fairly easily. I personally love the Rafiq FTO+Leila Duo, its been doing a lot of work for me personally. It provides a fast repeater for Leila to hunt hackers, and provides midfield camo discovery, along with a few classifieds (Sensor, FO, Hacker).
     
  2. The Red Duke

    The Red Duke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    46
    One of my favorite things about Infinity is that that the janky stuff can be actually be good.
     
    Xeurian likes this.
  3. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    46
    IMO I think the focus of RTF shouldn't be in the Heavy hitters of the sectorial, as other factions have better and more resilient ones. The issue about RTF is the same of all Haqqislam: all their units play around a fragile resilience, second opportunities with Dr+ and fueling a fireteam buffed attacked piece. With his in mind, take this considerations I've making since RTF was reliased:

    1. Tarik IS NOT a must and is an advantage. Imagine depending only on him to make a resilient and hard hitting army list.
    2. RTF gives you the opportunity to easily have a core an haris: Ghulam + (Zhayedan, Mukhtar, Khawarij).
    3. Nahab are great, max AVA on table is totally competitive.
    4. Core resilience is brutal, you can start with a Ghulam defensive core and then play it as a "Ghulam" core, linking Khawarij, Namurr or Naffatun.
    5. Al Fasid is awesome, played a tournament with each of the profiles of hime, the HRL out shined the HMG. Yet, is a good 2rd and 3rd attacker and defender.
    6. Tuareg Sniper is an interesting option for an ARO piece
    7. Janissaries in RTF became midfield players: Hortlak with viral pistols, Leila, Namurr, Janissarie with TinBot.

    In conclusion, we must not expect that all sectorial are released as Varuna full of easily and identifiable tools. Haqqislam needs more study (IMO), use the tools in the sectorial not as solo pieces but as a cog of a bigger machine.
     
    Golem2God, Ayadan, Shoitaan and 5 others like this.
  4. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    32
    What do you say about something like this?

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    CARMEN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + Bâtard / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] BÂTARD Trench-hammer, AP CCW. (- | 5)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MUKHTAR Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    3 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Deltervees likes this.
  5. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    46
    This is a good example in how to properly play Ramah, a Defensive core and a hard hitting Haris. For me, I'll skip the Khawarij MSV2, and use another solo piece, like a Nahab. I know its so tempting to use the Kharawij all the time but I've learned that he is not always a must. I'll use something like this.

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)
    MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    MUKHTAR Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    NAHAB Red Fury, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 36)
    HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt + 1 Nasmat A2 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] NASMAT A2 Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    The core is purely defensive and Leila is there to use the 5 or 6 orders of the 2nd group to do the mission or reform the link. Mukhtar are straight forward, they kill. Yet I prefer the Khawarij Haris 'cause they can super jump and hide. Nahab is a 1st turn beast, fuel it with 8 orders and if hit use the Hakim.

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Barrogh and RasPuto like this.
  6. Palomides

    Palomides Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    306
    You make a lot of sense, @VicBanjo. But the Khawarij offer us the best models in Haqqislam. I picked Haqqislam ages ago because of the old Khawarij model, something about the combination of turbans and trenchcoats just totally sold me.

    And,actually, I wonder if this is the frustration some are feeling with RTF. It certainly can work, but it might not do so through the tools that excite people? Ghulam links + Leila just feel generic. The Mukhtar and Nahab are amazing, but their aesthetics are a tier below Zhayedan and Khawarij.
     
    #66 Palomides, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  7. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    I think you hit the nail on the head here, @Palomides
    I know this at least echoes my own sentiments, being another player who leaned into Haqq for the turbans and religious desert warrior aesthetic. I'm frequently disappointed in the aesthetic direction of generic viable builds CB is offering us, but I still think RTF can be very competitive and I have fun playing the faction. I merely wish it's design was more aligned with my expectations and understand that isn't a realistic dream at all times.
     
  8. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    46
    @Palomides I can feel the frustration of the Haqqi players about RTF. It seems a collage of Vanilla without the classic Muttawi'ah and the always annoying Daylami. I think everybody expected a Varuna-like sectorial in this new releases and many of the fellow players have bad comments in the new sectoriales. Yu Jing keeps crying about Invincible and we keep telling ourselves that half of RTF doesn't work (pieces like Janissaries, Zhayedan, Fasid and sometimes Khawarij), I'll make a case for every of them:

    1. Janissaries: the way you can take Tarik or Namurr in a hugely resilient core. Hortlak are amazing in CqC and Leila can make a huge work protecting them from hackers. You can have a HMG or Spitfire, Sniper or ML, E/Marat, Shock Marksman, SMG, Heavy pistol and Viral pistol, MSV1 and Mimethism in core and carry excellent mission fulfillment platforms, what else you want?

    2. Zhayedan, the hated ones (LOL): yes they are costly; yes, they all not have MM2 but what other piece in the game can tell that it can outclass heavy weights so easily? Sniper is a monster in range 15s to hit with no visual mods. Breaker rifle is the King of the mid table, is a sentence of death leaving this guy alive in the middle of the field. HMG is a excellent platform to shot and advance. ML is yet to be discovered :D and Dr+ is only used in the Haris or Core. This guys enteres in CqC combat with Steel Phalanx and went out victorious. Ah and Automedikit is a excellent bet you prefer have it to no to, believe me.

    3. Fasid: the forgotten big guy, the master of tools. Compared to other pieces like Kriza, Gamma units and other S5 units he looks weak because the lack ok skills that gives him more active capabilities. Yet this guys excels in surviving in scenarios that the other ones can't: midfield (HRL + SMG the best for this). Mines, Heavy pistol and SS1 makes him a tough bone to chew. You can't surprise him, the mines will make you think twice before getting close, excellent PH14 to dodge, WIP 14, ARM 5, BTS 6 and impossible to isolate, he is a midfielder. You wanna play in the back, use another S5 (not the Taskmaster, he is more like the Fasid), if you wanna break their lines use this big guy, I used it like that and worked for me.

    In conclusion: experiment with the tools in the sectorial, use them in every situation and try to change your game style a bit to include them. I have made them work in tournaments with different play styles and factions so I beleive you can too, in your way. RTF is not a straight forward, unpack and use faction, study it and enjoy learning it, is useless to complain about something NOBODY has yet discovered how to use in its best way or ways.

    Peace everybody ;D
     
    ijw, Golem2God, Shoitaan and 2 others like this.
  9. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    270
    I would prefer something like this:

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    MUKHTAR Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Red Fury, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 22)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CARMEN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + Bâtard / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] BÂTARD Trench-hammer, AP CCW. (- | 5)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  10. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    244
    Anybody try running the hortlak sniper as Aro in a full link. I kinda wanna run 2 in a full link for aro and active turn long range hunting.
     
    Palomides likes this.
  11. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    1,356
    Well okay, seems the topic has changed a bit since I was taking a look last time...

    I used this against vanilla Combined Army yesterday in a game of Capture & Protect:
    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant L2 AP Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 57)
    KHAWARIJ (Fireteam: Haris, NCO) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32)
    GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    Note: the above models were fielded as a Fireteam: Core (formally, a Ghulam Core...), simply because there was no Khawarij NCO without Haris skill.

    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 23)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Red Fury, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 22)
    FASID HMG + (Smoke and Normal) Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 53)

    7 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Sure, Al Fasid got unlucky trying to get rid of a Combined flashpulse drone (it kept passing ARM tests, and later failed a dodge against Combined baggagebot's twin flamethrowers.
    The Hakim didn't had a chance to act, so I landed him in my 2nd turn to have his Order on table in the last one.
    Once enemy TR HMG wasted itself agaisnt mine (twice...), I was able to pull a raid thorough a flank with my Rafiq, effectively clearing it (and getting both Doc Worm and Umbra Lt out of action).
    The terrain layout did not allow me to make full use of the two Shihabs.
    Tarik's two Lt Orders (and the NCO Khawarij) were, however, pretty essential - allowing me to move the fireteam forward effectively for free each turn.
     
    Xeurian and RasPuto like this.
  12. Koval

    Koval Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    39
    I'd emphasize that this is one way to play Ramah. Personally, I would always make sure the core team has a strong attack piece, because I value having multiple potential threats on the board.

    I was playing around the other day with trying to build a list that starts as a "Janissary" core with two hortlak snipers, then could flip to a ghulam core. I wasn't able to find one that I actually liked.
     
    theGricks likes this.
  13. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    32
    Man, inspiring writing!

    RTF is so different from what I've learned to love (Ariadna Vanilla, Usarf, TAK) and once I started Haqqislam, I felt confident and comfortable playing Haqqislam Vanilla and HB. The problem with RTF comes when you realize that it has a low number of AROs, it's an elite sectorial so you're going to be swarmed by opponent's orders, has no warbands to go trading like kamikazes (except for Carmen) and has almost no midfield control (no mines, camos, ambush, infiltrators, Tuareg aside), so if you're going second you've to pray your Fanous remotes and your linked weapons can slow your opponent enough.

    Surely, the pieces you've described can be useful with the right setup (I was already thinking about a core of Janns + Hortlak + Leila) but it's clear RTF could have been way better.
     
    Golem2God and theGricks like this.
  14. Koval

    Koval Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    39
    I think it depends on a lot on what you mean by "better." Would a Ramah with less weaknesses have been stronger? Of course it would. But would that have been a better design? I'm not so sure.
     
  15. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    32
    Would have been "worse design" having:
    - Mine Dispenser on Al Fasid? (board control OPTION)
    - FDL1 on Zhayedans? (better deployment OPTION)
    - Impetuous warband with Bioimmunity? (trading OPTION and fluffy choice)

    These are just some ideas, nothing more. None is asking for a complete revamp of the sectorial, but having one or two options more could have been useful to face different scenarios and opponents, even if not game/meta breaking.

    Take Namurr, for example. I love her! She's a good beatstick, has rules that connect perfectly with the fluff and can be linked or let go solo. Is she too strong? I don't think so, or you'll see more of her both in RTF and Vanilla. Simply, she's a great example of design and gives you good OPTIONS. Everyone here would like to have more of these.
     
    Keyrott and Golem2God like this.
  16. Koval

    Koval Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    39
    I would agree that improving a couple weaker profiles is warranted, yes.

    But I was referring more to your comments on strong ARO pieces, midfield presence, and warbands. Weaknesses are an important part of design, especially when it comes to sectorials.
     
  17. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    46
    For ARO I'll go for the Ghulam Link with two ML, RTF gives you this extraodinary option plus you can have an aggressive haris easily thank to the low CAP heavy hitting weapons. Yes its difficult to play RTF second turn, yet it isn't impossible.
     
    RasPuto likes this.
  18. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    32
    I precisely wrote 3 options that would fix midfield presence and warbands but not AROs.

    HB doesn't have all these problems. Good defense, good attack, normal presence of AROs. I don't feel it's overpowered, but surely has good options.

    I'm not asking to have Hunzakuts, Fidays, Farzans, Yuan Yuans and Ghazis level of strength in RTF, just to fix a bit some units, leaving some weaknesses but improving different game-styles.
     
    #78 RasPuto, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  19. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    32
    Tomorrow I'll face VIRD in Unmasking.

    I've thought to bring HB, but what would you suggest me if I wanted to bring RTF?
     
  20. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    46
    What mission are you playing?