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Very disappointed with Ramah TaskForce

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by SirNando, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I mean they were hot garbage due for an update before Daedalus Fall came out so eh, don't hold your breath.
     
  2. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    But now they have a new Box that maybe doesnt break even, so sales figures might change their mind sooner.

    On the topic, I have far to less games with RTF yet, to analyse their strength properly. And it will take a lot more games to figure that Sectorial out, because it plays so differently compared to Vanilla and HB.
    But there are some things I have a gripe with in that Sectorial (Zhayedan, Janissaries, Carmen, mixed Links, Khawarij) which led me to make my own RTF (with a good chunk of more Supersoldier goodness, no MERCs and no FAT 2 Tarik in Ghillim).
    Never had that urge to sink hours into that, with Vanilla or Hassassins...
     
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  3. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

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    heh I actually think a lot of people bought the Zhayedan box all because they look so cool. And make good proxy Mukhtars :D
     
    oldGregg likes this.
  4. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    Could be...I think they are solid, but not really good looking. If a lot of people like them, I see no hope for an overhaul soon...which would be sad.
     
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  5. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    I always thought that we're playing this game to have fun. And that we're using some armies because we like them - especially my valiant Haqqislam brothers ;)

    And at least that's what I'm doing - I'm using what I like, not necessary what is told to be the best. And I'm trying to make the army I play the most playable and strong using what is given in the list.
    Sure, I agree that Ramah lacks some stuff, like chaper midfield button pushers, but that's how it is. I don't agree we don't have ARO options - linked Khawa HRL is nasty, Ghulam ML too, and we can also field 2 Shihab TR bots. Not so bad.
    We can complain about the stuff that was given us (which doesn't change a thing), or we can play and learn to use it better.

    I like my Ramah Task Force.
    I like playing with small number of units, with aggressive ARO and bloody battles. I don't think RTF is the best of Haqq's armies and in bigger tournaments I'll propably be using Vanilla Haqq, my favourite. But now I play RTF, since it came out, and have rather nice results - most of the games won, not bad scores in local tournaments (ITS 300 I was 4 in 12 players, ITS 200 I was second in 14 players and in 350 LI YAMS I was 6 in 10 players), and after 4 tournaments I'm even in the lead of our Pomeranian League. It will propably change, because as I wrote in the begining, I play to have fun, but one thing is certain - I won't give up on Ramah without a fight ;)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  6. Lazarus0909

    Lazarus0909 Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Ramah is absolutely fantastic. I have a big guide I'm uploading in the next day or two to the forum, but beyond a small handful of 'situational' profiles, the sectorial is surprisingly well balanced, brings a variety of diverse options, and crucially, is very fun to play.
     
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  7. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    This is my impression from an opponents point of view as well. My local Haqq Player increased his win loss ration considerably when starting out with Rama. I can see some reasoning why Vanilla might be more potent for certain ITS events, but that’s marginal in my opinion.
     
  8. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Glass hammers tend to shatter when you strike with them rather than when they are being hit back. I always thought this is more appropriate for purely piece trading armies.

    So there's this opinion that it's not saying much. You can be a HI-oriented army that supports 16 orders without even opting for cheap links in its composition, and still get 0 Interplanetario entrants for good reasons. And QK can't really do that with Jans.

    I think there's a very good reason why Hortlaks are so limited. Aside from loadouts they are basically better Bagh Mari in a faction that isn't (wasn't?) supposed to have brute force units to match the brute force units faction (PanO, in a sense). It would be hilarious considering that Haqq already have what amounts to faster and tougher Nisses at no real cost increase, albeit without HMG option (which - again - probably was supposed to balance things out in CB's eyes).

    Did I mention that our local dealer was selling Zhayedan boxes for half of normal price just a month after release? I think I did, but it's absolutely funny for me who thought that people buying minis just for the collection should somehow even out sales of viable and less viable stuff.

    But then again, it probably doesn't help that Zhaedan minis are basically 3D models of previously released units, just with different "skins" and heads. Although in my opinion they are better versions among "siblings".
     
    oldGregg likes this.
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the mini. Zhayedan aren't particularly interesting and don't really have that draw... and then you have idiots like me who own 3 Guijia.

    Jesus christ we really need to stop buying Guijias or the stupid thing will never get buffed.
     
  10. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    I hate this sectorial. I want to play something diverse, fun, with lots of cool supersoldiers... But always end up building a 9-10 Order list around Maghariba.
    Might as well just call it "Maghariba&Co. Task Force".
    And the worst fact is that I actually win games with it, just like I did with Bahram building a list around 3 Ragiks.
    Why do the stupidest tactics always work the best?
     
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  11. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Probably because the community has deeply entrenched ideas about what is and what is not viable. When something does not fit the self imposed mould and succeeds despite this it tends to stand out. In reality it likely can work just fine, especially in an environment where people discount its effectiveness.
     
  12. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    So my own sample size with Ramah is actually rather small, probably smaller than that of my fellow Knowledge Seekers who are down on the army. However so far I've been pretty impressed with what the sectorial can do after giving them a spin for the first time at a small tournament at GenCon. The "Ghulam" fireteam is absolutely ridiculous, after playing with it a few times it feels like an almost peerless offensive powerhouse. In a single game I was laying down B2 flame templates on fireteams, gunning models down vis a vis Smoke Trick, getting value from NCO and bullying a pesky Kamau ARO with spec fire.

    What I was most worried about were the lack of cheap camo infiltrators, as many of us are/were. While there is really no substitute for the Farzan or Hunzakut, I found myself not missing them thanks to the excellent work my Hakim and Nahab got up to. They are trickier to use but are not to be underestimated. Despite offering a courtesy list with clear vacancies in it, my opponents lack of respect for a NBW drop troop resulted in a very dead Mary Problems at the top of my T1.

    I think some folks might be conflating RTF's lack of flexibility with it being poor overall and I'm not sure that's the case. For all the awesome plays I was able to make, I lost one of my games after my opponents T1 by virtue of going second. My opponent was able to get McMurrogh into my DZ and the game promptly ended. Any other flavor of Haqq and I would have had mines, skirmishers and ARO's to slow them down, but alas it was not what I opted to run that day.

    I feel like Ramah must strike first and always needs to be reaching for plays. I would even go so far as to say that in some situations we are better served making a low odds or somewhat poor play than just sitting around, as things are just going to get much worse in your reactive. That lack of flexibility, ability to change gears on the fly and piece trade really sets it apart from the other sectorials I think, for better and for worse. Naturally this will be ill suited to certain missions and optimal for others and overall I think I chose well for the tournament!
     
  13. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    i dont have the answers to this, but i just wanted to for the sake of conversation challenge one thing - Is Ramah truly lacking in flexibility? I've not put it on the table, so please disregard me if i am completely off base, but when i look at it i see:

    • Super open core fireteam with a huge variety of options from ARO pieces (Sniper rifle/missile launcher), long range attack pieces (HMG), template weapons (Naffatun), elite LI (Khawarj) etc etc
    • very solid Mukhtar offensive haris
    • Area defense troops for deployment defense (Naffatun)
    • Nahabs choosing between Airborne and infiltration on the fly
    • AVA2 total reaction bots, AVA3 flash pulse bots to help mitigate ARO weakness

    so it feels to me like there's genuinely options in how you build and right now i'm personally looking pretty closely at running two TR bots. with a ghulam hacker with the regular hacking device for Marksmanship L2 they can also be good long distance attackers in a pinch

    but i also agree with your assessment that ramah is about having the initiative and making plays and being on the attack - Ramah might be able to build for ARO but its not its strength.
     
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  14. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Possibly because opponents dismiss these approaches as stupid without going too deep into how to actually respond to that.

    But you definitely can build lists differently here.
     
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  15. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    My main practice buddy has pretty much only played RT after they dropped and is absolutely in love with them.
    I don't have any experience playing them but I do have a ton playing against them.

    The main advantages I see are how resilient the fireteams are. Nothing like fighting past flamers to assult the fireteam only for them to jump right back up to a five man band thanks to a ton of good replacements or a strong Doctor.

    My opponents alpha strikes are devastating and always seam to have the tools for the job, and the orders to twist the knife.

    My opponents ARO game tends to be a little weak but not the worst I have seen.
     
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  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I ran this not long back, and it slaps. It worked really well, strong defensively, good variety of offensive options, powerful infowar presence, plenty of orders... Only thing it lacks is an Engineer, but you have to make some sacrifices.

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)
    MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    NAHAB Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun + E/Mitter, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30)
    TUAREG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Red Fury, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 22)
    KAMEEL Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  17. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    @Solar Not running the doctor+ Mukhtar for just 2 more points to put you at the perfect 6SWC 300pts? hes pretty good in the mukhtar haris, since their second skill mov is only 2 he can patch the others up on demand. Unless you really like the D-charges and flash pulse that comes with the FO profile
     
  18. D6Damager

    D6Damager Active Member

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    I don't understand why people are saying there are no cheap 'button pushers' when we have Ghulams, Rafiq, Monstruckers, and Leila Sharif. Leila is especially good for her points.
     
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  19. Lazarus0909

    Lazarus0909 Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I think (and I could be wrong here) that the complaint is more along the lines of no cheap infiltrating button pushers (the 20 point camo types like Hunzakuts, Hawwas etc) rather than the run of the mill footsloggers.

    It's really not a problem for Ramah IMO, but you do have to build with it in mind, and if you badly need that midfield scoring off things like Tuaregs, Hakims and of course the mighty Nahab, you'll largely have to pay a pretty penny for it.

    In general though, no you're right, Ramah has more than enough specialist options with most of them fitting pretty seamlessly in a list without much effort.
     
  20. Koval

    Koval Active Member

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    I would definitely agree that people saying that are thinking about the Hunzakut. Yes, we do have other ways of pushing buttons. But the cheap camo infiltrating specialist is a useful tool that most factions get, but we don't. So it absolutely is a weakness of the faction, that we have to mitigate in other ways.

    In addition to the midfield options that Lazarus mentioned, I'd point to Mukhtar in a haris or duo. They can efficiently get to an objective, push the button, then defend it with good numbers, and effective 4 or 6 wounds, and potentially burst 2 AROs. Or the Namurr, who replaces infiltration with mobility, and a marker state with total immunity/NWI. It's a different sort of midfield button-pushing, but it's still midfield button-pushing.