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Very disappointed with Ramah TaskForce

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by SirNando, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    But certainly the Hortlak have some potential for development once the time for an update comes.
    As do Zhayedan.

    In a few years.
     
  2. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I havn't tried them extensively, but in general I found them good offensively, but very weak defensively, the glass hammer description is appropriate. I think I tried 2-3 games with them before moving on (loved the core options). I used to be a faction purest, and collect everything Haqq, but with CBs move to sectoral oriented products, I've diversified and can't play everything. I've already got a fragile sectoral (HB) and didn't want another. I actually just sold all my RTF models and trimmed my Haqq to HB, favorite QK (Djanbzan, Azrail, alhawwa), Saladin and Tarik Spitfire.

    While RTF has a couple unique tricks, they don't warrant a dedicated sectoral.
    • Fire team with both Smoke and MSV : Nice, but not that much better than solo models
    • Super jumping fireteam : again nice but not that much better than solo models. Having Tarik do it is a killer, but a glass hammer.
    Pre-RTF, the Khawajari were not played often, now they are only played because they are in a fireteam. If we compare to other fire team cores, I used to play Muyibs in vanilla (N2, I liked the smoke LGL), and they get better in HB. The Djanbzan was an MVP in Vanilla, better in a Fireteam.
     
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  3. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Actually i disagree on the last statement. Janns are imo one of the better generic HI options in thr game and you would still see them in vanilla lists and in QK where they belong. In limited insertion i still love running an hmg, missle, akbar doc, and 2 FO hafzas in QK as a really nasty sledgehammer. Janns in Rama is just an excuse for not including a new Akbar doc unit.
     
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  4. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    But also to address the Hortlak, they dont need a full profile spread like that, just give them an ap marksman rifle and i would be in love, or even a mk12. Just something they can actually firefight with, without needing to be in a link or in point blank range. They make another great hunter like unit but 4-4 mov and an smg maked them an order sink just to even get into position. Maybe keep them the same but give them FD lvl 2.
     
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  5. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

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    Well they're very clearly intended to be filler to add utility to and decrease the cost of Janissary fireteams in Ramah - I agree they probably need one more weapon (leaning to a shock marksman rifle, but a viral rifle or something else would be neat too), but they aren't meant to be solo pieces. If you want a solo hunter in Vanilla (or even Ramah) you're better off with a Mukhtar, which has better weapons, MOV, and FDL1.
     
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  6. Koval

    Koval Active Member

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    I generally agree. They fill a similar role to QK's hafzas to make the HI core cheaper, but in a slightly different way. That being said, I have had some success using the sniper as a solo piece, with NWI typically increasing the number of orders my opponent has to spend on him.
     
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  7. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    The main draw for me in Ramah is actually the Ghulam fireteam. With the different "counts as" and wildcardtroopers you are able to built a full link team with cheap fillers, smoke, MSV2 and Burst 5 FatL2. You can also use Lt orders for the smoke with NCO and even get Lt2. And all that in one single fireteam. I'm not sure any other sectorial has anything similar.

    The problem for me is making that work in Ramah because the support is rather limited. The only infiltrating button pusher in ramah is the Tuareg. While great, two of them can be quite pricey. maybe i'm just too used to my cheap Hunzakuts in vanilla. The ARO game is also rather lacking. Currently i'm actually trying to make it work with an EVO plus my 3 fanous remotes. I do that all the time in Neoterra but there i can bring even more remotes so i'm not sure if it is worth it in Ramah yet.
     
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  8. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member

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    I will point out the Nahab can infiltrate too, just isn’t under the protection of a marker state(except for Cybermask with KHD).

    I haven’t tried an EVO overclock list yet, but 3 Fanous, a RF Rafiq or 2, and a TR bot seems pretty solid.
     
  9. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    True. I maybe should also try the Hakim for pushing buttons. I guess that part is mostly just leaving my comfort zone. (I love marker state infiltrators)
     
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  10. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    You can field two TR-bots in Ramah :)
     
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  11. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    Why not push buttons with Maggie?)
     
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  12. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Weight issues. But we don't talk about that i love Maggie the way she is.
     
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  13. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

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    I think Ramah is fine. Yeah I still maintain the biggest consideration for playing RTF over vanilla is “do you want to shoot stuff with a linked Tarik?”, otherwise the opportunity cost of playing really good Haqq infiltrators and of course cancer-of-the-earth Ghazis is usually too great. But I agree with @CabalTrainee the real “puzzle” and *fun* of playing the sectorial for me is figuring out and playing the Ghulam and associated wildcards link well, and this uniqueness is what sets RTF apart from every other sectorial in the game.

    I can see why that isn’t popular though, a sectorial focused around a light infantry link isn’t particularly flashy. On paper especially when you are building it on Army Builder, the link seems individually fragile in true Haqqislam spirit, and yet when taken as a whole and especially dependent on your decisions in game, the juggling in and out of different wildcards when your fragile Haqq stuff inevitably die make the Ghulam link surprisingly adaptable and fun.

    That was one thing that surprised me. I initially thought RTF was gonna be Haqq’s LI “Limited Insertion” sectorial, and while still true when compared to QK and HB, I was pleasantly surprised to find after a few games that the gimmick for RTF is actually in the LI “Light Infantry” pseudo-Ghulam link.

    Ramah on reactive is really just hope and prayers. Don’t really have much tricks for those save for the triple flashy bots and disposable Ghulam AROs but eh I can live with that. The other Haqq sectorials and vanilla do defence in depth very well, but can’t match RTF’s full linked Tarik or Mukhtar Haris sheer shooty active lethality.

    Haha Zhayedans are still %^#$%$@# though. Hey if they can give Hakims the weird Medjector which has an absolute marginal effect and a prime example of unnecessary rules bloat in Infinity, I don’t think it’s asking much to give Zhayedans an Automedkit+ or similar where they get +3 to the PH roll to stand back up.
     
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  14. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    RTF is excellent, you guys need to lay off the hash pipe and return to the peaceful and positive way of Haqqislam!

    With Mukhtars, Namurrs and Tuareg we have mobile and flexible specialists/gunfighters. A very flexible core team which can be built in so many ways. An excellent and tactically varied TAG.

    I wish Zhayedan were a little better and that Hortlak had more options but really these are minor things and overall I think RTF is very fun, different and strong.
     
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  15. Fenrir

    Fenrir Active Member

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    Every time I play ramah I am thinking that I can play ramah better in vanilla. I played vanilla/ramah these months, when I play vanilla I feel the next, this is ramah (all the army 270 points or maybe 240 if you like fidays) + muttawia + libertos(5 guys 30 points). the only problem is that you do not have links but we can defense our deploy zone with muttawia.

    The question is, why I'm playing ramah then? the answer is easy muktar haris / tariq or kawarij 5 dices of spitfire in core/haris. because we can play jenizaros better in qapu or we can play core of asawira in HB.
     
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  16. Koval

    Koval Active Member

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    While my answer is different from yours, this is a very important question to ask, for any sectorial. If there isn't anything that really makes you want to play the sectorial that you can't do otherwise, you'll probably be happier playing vanilla.
     
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  17. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Mukhtar Haris, vastly easier access to the Namurr duo, Ghulam Core, Ghulam NCO profile, Rafiq duo, EVO and three Fanous... These all work great.
     
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  18. Fenrir

    Fenrir Active Member

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    More or less these profiles are in qapu. Ramah and qapu are quite similar which makes me think that there are no differences insite haqqislam and this is boring in my opinion.
     
  19. Koval

    Koval Active Member

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    I think the comparison to QK highlights the importance of mobility in making Ramah unique. QK only has 6-X movement on its remotes and TAGs, and it doesn't have climbing plus or super-jump anywhere. While those only show up a few times in Ramah, they're on some key profiles.
     
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  20. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree here, @Fenrir - while RTF and QK feel more like similar thing when compared to HB, I can't find many "same profiles" except for obvious same profiles that are availablein both armies (Ghilim, Janissaries etc). Allright, Azra'il and Al Fasid are similar, but still pretty much different.

    That being said - you are entitled to your own opinion, as always. We are entitled to disagree with it. Which, I believe, is where we should end the discussion...

    Also (ceterum censeo Carthago esse delendam) I agree that Zhayedan are uninspiring, and due for an update as soon as CB decides to make some touchups to the Daedalus' Fall-era armies.