I am quite excited for the Vedic sectorial whenever it comes out! I am still very new to ALEPH (I am very slowly and carefully expanding my model collection, I still have a lot of my original army to collect), but I was thinking about the named characters for Steel Phalanx. ALEPH seems quite dedicated to creating these recreations of heroic figures, but they are so far missing for the Vedic side of things. So I am curious what ALEPH players are interested in seeing in terms of these heroic figures. What I am interested in seeing is: Arjuna (Bhagavad Gita): While not only being an important heroic figure in the story he also wields a celestially crafted bow that had " an inexhaustible quiver" as well as being known to be a marksman of the highest calibre. Not sure about the bow in game terms (if it needs to be included at all), but it would definitely be interesting to see him as an above average shooter. Various Hindu Gods: Part of what I am interested in seeing is the development of ALEPH getting more invested in the fight with the EI. So I think it would be interesting to see ALEPH beginning to generate contained aspects of itself similarly to the Avatar. An easy example would be Shiva, God of Destruction, just a big old S7 that can brawl with an Avatar. **Disclaimer: This post is not intended to be a simplification or stereotyping of a people or their faith, but is intended as an exploration of the possible development of game content which is drawn and inspired from the culture and faith.**
I think you have misunderstood something. Aleph is not interested in the least in the creation of the Recreations, he made some by comission of the big potencies, and some to ease relationships between itself and Haqquislam (twice, Avicenna was taken and reprogrammed by the Nomads XD), and Achilles to run the superbody Aleph had made, which lead to Patroclus so Achilles doesn't die as often, and Penthesilea because Patroclus was not enough to keep Blondie making suicidal charges. Then, Hector to act as defensive general. All the other heroes named inside the Greek side are generic myrmidons (and Alke, a "generic Thorakitai") who earned a name for themselves that could be found in the Illiad. Vedic is no place for heroes, aside from maybe specific posthumans, since the Operations Subsection is the cold intellect of Aleph implementing the most logical courses of action (thus the need for the greeks, so the Evolved Intelligence could not predict them). All Devas, Asuras, Nagas... are "parts" of Aleph, with no real individuality. Now, specific AVA 1 versions of troops is another thing, like the already mentioned in another thread "elemental versions" of the Asuras. But certainly Aleph does not need a second Atalanta in the Vedic sectorial, frankly.
On the other hand we do have the named Asura Yashia on the fluff. Maybe it's a bit like Alke, that reputation and actions get Vedic troops the right for names or something, we don't know yet.
@xagroth Interesting. I guess I misunderstood what little lore I have consumed on the origins of the greek characters. I guess I was thinking about Joan and Wallace as being more deliberate creations with a purpose from the start rather than making something like the Achilles body and then needing a way to operate it after the fact. Either way, thanks for the info and lore perspective!
You are welcome ^^ This is correct, to a degree. Wallace was going to be, like Avicenna and Saladin, an "ambassador recreation", in this case to Ariadna. Supposedly, he took a hit on the head, several stuff broke (software and hardware), and he ended like he is now ("clan leader", but not loyal to anyone buth Caledonians). Joan was going to be a Public Relationships stunt for PanO and Military Orders... and she proved to be much more. Then YJ asked for Sun Tze (and paid for it), etc... Only Achilles is "special", because the body was so advanced and so filled with sensors and stuff, an over-the-top mind had to be developed.All the other recreations follow the physic limitations (aside from Sun Tze "really 2 wounds MI/3 wounds HI" because of his immunity) of troops with their gear.
When are these forums going to get a 'dislike for horribleness' button? :/ So your options are either 'Vedic is a place for villains' or 'Vedic is a place for faceless robots', both of which seems pretty out of character for ALEPH and Infinity in general. Creating a whole sectorial with no named characters at all would be as jarring as this whole JSA thing. Hell man, even Onyx got a named spec ops, and they already ARE the 'faceless robot invaders'. No, we will definitely get some heroes. The question is whether they will be simply unique Asura/spec ops or new Lhosts based off ancient gods/characters. My guess would be the former, but that the names will be taken from the ancients in the same way as with Alke et al.
He's stating the fluff as it stands now, anything different will be either a rationalization like i suggested, or a full retcon
Vedic is a place for those who do what is needed, no "greater good" nor "little evil". And named characters is not the same as heroes, I can refer you to my novelized reports from Flamestrike and Wotan where only the Dakinis/rebots are faceless mooks. However, do not expect a NWI specops, nor a 2W one. Named Devas are possible, because of frequent interaction. Devas with heroic profiles? Not so much. Asuras with extras? First the whole profile needs a review. And Kerr Nau IS heroic. Not morally, sure, but surviving Umbra training and earning individual recognition? Legendary.
No, he's stating his interpretation of the fluff, as are you. Lack of mention does not equal lack of existence. You show me a quoted passage where CB has specifically said there are no 'heroic characters' in Vedic and I'll eat crow. You're stating a double standard. First you say that named character /= hero. Then you say that a unit with a heroic profile is. Gotta pick one. Either a 'buffed unit', regardless of characterization, is a hero (in which case LITERALLY EVERY named unit in Infinity is a hero) or 'heroes' are only specific epic characters (Sun Tze, Joan, and a few others). I agree Vedic will not likely have the second. But no way in hell will it avoid the first. Referring to your own writing is...really silly. Seriously? It's not canon bro... You're going off the description of Vedic as ALEPH's ISS. The problem I find with your interpretation, again, is that EVERY other sectorial that is 'special activities' in nature has named units, heroic ones even (as heroic as Kerr Nau if you really want to make that distinction). So again, to do otherwise (to have an entire sectorial with only faceless mooks and no 'buffed' character units) would make Vedic the rarest and most unique of all the sectorials in the game. Seems super unlikely. Have you not noticed that CB has resorted to copying ANIME characters directly in as sculpts? There's no way Vedic doesn't get some school-girl uniformed Asura named 'Miku'. (sarcasm).
This is true, but i don't think we can say that Aleph is not interested in recreations. I would rather say that for Aleph, heroes are tools too. A nameless dedicaced cyborg is a tool, but a true hero is a tool too, just for different purposes. Aleph is rationnal and will build the tool she needs. Well, the good question would be, is there the need for such a tool in vedic ? SP had the need not only to be good fighters, but also to be posterboys(girls) and interract with humans, so they needed to feel like humans, with names, personnalities ... But a named character is not necessary a hero or a recreation. There are two reasons i can think of why such a character would exists in Vedic. The first is, Aleph needed a named, heroic, tool. Aleph did that in SP (Achilles, Pat ...), but that seems rather strange in Vedic. The second is that some nameless tool evolved and ended having it's own personnality and achievements. That is quite possible, and Aleph would be wise enough to keep it as an "upgraded tool".
I for one would hate to see a named Vedic character. If I am not mistaken, Vedic is the fan name for the non-greek side of Aleph, I believe in the background material, any Aleph forces not in the Assault Subsection, belong to the Special Situations Section, or the Operations Sub Section. We do not yet know what the new 'Vedic' sectorial will look like yet. However all the profiles we have so far that are not Greek, are heavily robotized aspects of Aleph. I would like to see the whole sectorial be composed of nameless aspects of Aleph, working together perfectly like . . . well a machine. The only character 'Vedic' needs is Aleph herself. Whether or not I will get what I want, remains to be seen. I find it highly unlikely I would buy a named Vedic character. (Unless the sculpt is awesome!) Technically true, Aleph is a machine intelligence and does not have a true gender. However I can't help but look at the Marut, and the Yudbots and feel like Aleph identifies as female. Perhaps I am imposing too much of my own head cannon into the setting, but she seems very Motherly towards humanity. (Perhaps sometimes the overbearing type of mother.)
This. OSS vibe was always that of de-personified efficiency. Black Ops assassins perfectly synchronized as they complete their mission, with no need for words as every body is controlled either by the singular will of ALEPH, or by an Aspect that can communicate remotely faster then opening its sleeve's mouth would take. Operatives that can evacuate by simply leaving the body behind, possibly self-destructing it. Robots with no identifying marks. No one to catch and interrogate - hell, ALEPH behind the eyes of its Aspect learning more from the interrogators than the other way around. The only true personalities being Posthumans, and even then I'd assume they'd use a number for the mission instead of their real name. Full Uncanny Valley mode on.
Or perhaps such is a calculated decision to provide that appearance, not because of Aleph's feelings, but due to the general view of humanity towards motherhood as opposed to machine?
Hasn't Aleph been trying to connect with humanity? Thats why it created all the recreation ambassador personalities (and also for manipulation) right? I guess I was under the impression that Aleph is trying to avoid being scrutinized by humanity as this unfeeling machine so that the Human Sphere would be less aware and less concerned about a Non-Human entity controlling so much of their lives. Yes but the reason its called Vedic is because all the non-greek units are creatures or entities that are part of the Hindu faith. Vedic refers to the different scriptures that are part of the Hindu canon called Vedas. CB did this intentionally and I personally (for how little thats worth in these discussions) would find it a shame if they didn't use at least some of the really colorful and interesting and cool mythology that is part of the Hindu culture and faith.
Well yes, that is what the Assault Subsection was built for. If I am not mistaken they have their own reality TV channel. However the Operation Subsection seems to be the bureaucrats and accountants. The faceless public servants who make sure everything happens the way it is supposed to happen. They are like IT professionals. Nobody wants to know their names, and they don't want anyone to know their name. As to the Special Situation Section, it is heavily implied that the 'official' record is scrubbed of their existence. Definitely not the place you want a stand-out personality. The Greeks have enough characters for all of Aleph. A completely character-free sectorial would be a nice contrast. They can still pull deeply on Vedic mythology to describe the different units and their functions. None of them need a personal identifier, and it might even reduce their ability to perform their jobs efficiently. I would love an Operation Subsection sectorial, full of accountants, lawyers, diplomats and even bus drivers. Public servants, that just so happen to be universally installed with nanopulsars and advance military training subroutines. Terrorist attack at the court house? Suddenly it becomes apparent that the stenographer, has a direct link to the Aleph gestalt mind and knows 9 ways to sever the attackers spine using only 50% of the Lhost's bodies operational capacity!
I think that at most the only personality we might see in OS is Spokesman Abel, the public face for ALEPH. Beyond that, it seems doubtful that a sectorial based on silent killing would have many folks stepping into the limelight.
