also, I have been writing PanO lists again, bringing what I've learned in Ariadna back to my first love, and I have to say, I feel more than ever these days that we as PanO players need to stop playing infinity the way other fations do. Take the discussion on skirmishers for example. At 23 pts we probably have one of the best midfield deployment units in the game in the peacemaker, even better when theres an EVO hacker on the table. If you want more punch, well theres only 1 other faction that puts 2 wounds in the mid field from the get go so (hello montessa) Things like this, they arent the traditional camo skirmishers (not saying we are bad at those mind) but they are damned effective. And yes you can run 12-14 order lists with those units reasonably well if you are that way inclined
@daboarder: you've listed two of the reasons why SAA is my first and favourite army ;) One of the prime example would be how PanO plays objective-based missions. We're more suited for alpha strike than other factions, using superior BS and strong midfield/AD/TAG/REM assets to put opponent on the back foot, so we don't have to worry too much about going for objectives with our WIP. Push Bulleteer - or a Tikbalang - up one flank, kill some ARO troops, leave him in enemy DZ in Suppressive Fire (and guard with TO against hackers), and suddenly opponent has to deal with fire in the house instead of fighting your main force or scoring points. Sure, other factions have tools to do that as well, but not so effective, including cost-effective, as ours.
Did exactly that yeasterday. Resulted in 3 turns of shootout beetwen Buleeter and Keisotsu FO in link xD (ok I've also killed 3 Raidens). Problem was that there was Domaru on flank, who would be more than happy to chop/EM Buleeter without much effert once I move into DZ. Don't get me wrong Buleeter Spitfire is a great asset, it just well... a drone with all it's weaknesses ;) Not to mention that when you have both MO and NCA the latter can suport Buleeter few times better than former :( Regarding Peacemaker I always found it to be extremaly dependant on getting 1st turn. It also requires you to get Spitfire version, as otherwise it's quite easy to (effectively) outrange it. And I know Tikbalang is crazy good, played against it few times :D (if only Seraph could bully his way into midfield as efficiently as Tikbalang....)
True that. Still, Bulleteer is crazy effective for its cost. As for MO... I really hope CB will look a bit closer at it this year and fix some things. As usual, deployment is the key. HS Peacemaker starting with Overclock on it is hellishly good as a speed bump. Burst 2 HS + Burst 2 HFT? Yes, please. It's all the more frustrating, when all it needs is getting Super Jump on the Auxbot as well...
@daboarder , forgot about the montesa, good catch Buleteer has electric pulse.... if he wants to go that way after wasting so much, let him go that way
On a side note, am I the only one who look at Armbot logo and see "eyeless" rendition of turrets from Portal, especially when we're talking about bulleteers, at which point the "That's 65% more bullet per bullet!" trailer emerges from my memory? Damn it.
Well, I use to call my "full REM" lists Aperture Science test and see if my opponent succeeds to it. As for the Peacemaker with HS, I find them good to clear the midfield of Foxtrots, Hunzakuts and whatever trooper posted in the middle of the table. If a Core FT of Reverend is sitting at 16" of it, well, an assisted fire programm and see the little virgins cry and pray while they all burn and die due to the Auxbot and Shock ammo. The Peacemaker hardly survive but trading the half of my opponent list against one or two of those Remotes is ok for me. And I don't know why you complain so much about Seraph, really. I'm using it since September and it is always pure joy and fun for me and tears for my opponent. Never seen such an effective piece to clear the objectives of all those infiltrated specialists. Plus the Auxbot is nice for CC, minesweeping etc. Tikbalang is really different and more "vanilla" in its gameplay than Seraph that is all about Alpha Strike and aggression. Because the Spitfire needs you to always go forward to be effective, it is a good unit for missions like LoS, Capture and Protect, Biotechvore, Frontline etc. It is good for flanking and surrounding manoeuvers too. And finally, an SP player is way more afraid from a Seraph than from a Tik just because a Tik won't stay efficient at mid/shortrange where a Seraph is still a real threat. I find the Seraph more matching the style of fight we see in manga and anime than any other TAG in this game and should be played a bit like that.
Well, I talked a bit about it with my brother and he pointed out that a Super Jumping Auxbot would offer some OP move because we wouldn't risk the TAG itself for attacking the rooftop infiltrators but just the Auxbot and that would be pretty silly for him. But since he plays quite only Aleph and SP, I think he is a bit biaised since he doesn't find Proxys OP at all but just OK... But I find the other side more inconvenient: when the Auxbot is jumping, your Seraph has to jump the 10 inches (or 6 if you drop out SJ) and can't use the SJ to have a shoot in the same time. I'll live with that anyway and make sure to avoid to do this as much as I can.
I'm aware of that and never advocated for superjumping Auxbot (at least without some extensive testplay). All I was always saying was that it sucks that Auxbot cannot move at all when Seraph is superjump. Simple allowing him of normal move when his big buddy is doing all the crazy things would be enough.
in part what stiopa mentioned which is very much a view Ive always argued for. But in this instance I meant more that we need to look at our units and use them not wish they were other units. Take the aforementioned skirmisher screen. Yes you could play ASA and run Naga's or in other secs or vanilla you could drop a pair of peacemakers, an EVO hacker and an actual skirmisher like a locust or a crocmen into that mix. but dont try and play camo spam, none of our skirmishers are really cheap enough for that. Our REMs however are so use those and achieve the same thing
Would it be too stupid if connected units were allowed to "mirror" short movement skills with any short movement skills instead of exactly the same one? Aside from special cases like discover(?).
It, just makes me sad when I look back through this thread and see so much "X would be awesome! Which is why I don't think we'll get it". But hey guys... it could be worse. We could be Yu Jing.
Nah, I think Varuna will be pretty good. What I'm more concerned about is whether it'll be interesting to play. There's a lot of stuff in PanO that has a nice concept with flawed execution.
