Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Wombat85, Feb 18, 2018.
And thats the loan parte.... did you read it until the end?
Its several pages back, but i believe i was replying to kwan.
Its also not really a loan due to the level of integration these units actually have in the fluff with the pano military and the friars with the intelligence bureau
The fluff could easily be changed so that the space pope announces a crusade and all the knights of the MO are tied up with that and can't make themselves available to the regular PanO forces, except for a few left behind to guard the monasteries etc (keeping the token amount in sectorials).
It's not something I'd want to happen, but I could see the logic behind it if it did.
And even I wasn't suggesting removing them from the Sectorials they're in, just altering the sectorial to an NA2 and removing them from Vanilla.
I get that it would be unpopular. I get that some people will be upset. I'm just thinking about the fact that PanO already gets guff about the number of their Sectorials, and we still have 2 more to go(Varuna and Svalarheim)...and that cutting the Knights to NA2 would make it feel a bit more manageable.
Not that unopular, outside of Joan no one uses Knights in Vainilla
Hell, I don't use vanilla ;)
Downsizing the vanilla and giving MO NA2 status would open interesting design possibilities for both. FOr me it trumps any fluff-based arguments, especially since there's always the possibility to write new fluff.
The question if CB sees it the same way, and how creative they're able to get.
14 HI in vanilla PanO, 10 of which are Knights, just sayin'...
Well it's funny that PanO (knights excluding), has very little "own" HI units (less even than a Haqq, which is telling ;P).
PanO is a profesional army, Knights are a religious one..... i almost didnt started PanO because of MO.
Went straight to NCA, church funded but all veterans and anofesionals.
Religion and professionalism in an army arent mutually exclusive.
The knights are professional soldiers, its evident they have better training than majority of pano troops
Profesional is not about better training, Is about disciplin and priorities, fury AND religious go against that.
Discipline and priorities are again not mutually exclusive to religion.
If anything most religions demand discipline. Fury is just an ingame rule with no real discernible fluff justification when it comes to knights beside the teutons, and if anything berserk is the rule the fluff is referring to.
By virtue of being regular and not irregular, the knights are assumed to perform exactly like a regular army.
If you dont like knights aesthetic thats cool, but you are misrepresenting them and what they mean in the infinity setting.
I don't think he's really "misrepresenting", but rather he might be having a hard time explaining what he's trying to convey.
We've long had a tie between the PanO Military and the Military Orders. Nobody's denying that. However, it's also been established that the PanO Military is its own beast that allows for parts of the Military Orders to be intertwined with them. Would you agree/disagree on this?
Because of this arrangement though, we have had it established(unless the RPGs have overruled this) over the years that members of the PanO Military will serve with the Military Orders in roles such as Order Sergeants or Crusader Brethren--not 'full' Knights from what was originally portrayed, but rather rebadged personnel that are trying to curry favor with the church for their own gains.
That, to me, suggests that the Military Orders aren't undisciplined or unprioritized--but they're viewed as a means to an end by many people. Then you have the truly Faithful, in the form of the Knights themselves.
This for me is a big reason why I keep coming back to liking the idea of NA2 status for them, with the current Knights remaining where they are in terms of Sectorials but further additions being NA2s or possibly even small Sectorial styled forces of their own with accompanying PanO forces.
They cant tale cober because of a religiouse zeal and cant stop moving foreward because a religiouse fury to kill the infidel.
They don't operate in a maner that puts the mission first, but their religiouse belives.
Thats not profesional, doesnt matter how much you want to think it is or regular their orders are.
Yet no knight is unable to take cover. All of them have ma to counter the way religious functions. Any of them that CAN become impetuous dont even have to move forward as they are regular impetuous.
Of the knight orders, 2 dont even have fury at all. 2 are linkable so arent affected by it. 1 has fury and the fluff indicates that it is specifically super zealous... hence berserk.
Of the non direct order affiliates. Crusaders, father knights, black friars and order sgts dont have fury at all. And only 1 the magisters are affected by extremely impetuous.
The knights are literally more professional than the moiras and the akals.
Hey, guys, I do actually appreciate that there is an interesting conversation to be had about Military Orders, the PanOceanian Military Complex and the Non Aligned Armies.
But can we please stop having it in this Varuna thread?
@psychoticstorm can the relevant stuff be split off please?
This forum really do need a tree based post display view ....
We can pretend its to talk bout knights in varuna, and how they are easily integrated in a professional force as they are part of one.
Maybe not the teutons, foamy mouthed nutters
I mean maybe they could shift it into its own (similar to NA2) faction that is Military Orders, then that allows them to expand on each order as its own sectorial...but More on topic is anyone disapointed that we don’t get to see a pan-o SMG on the HRL Kamau? (Even though the model is still awesome)
I'm more concerned about an -actual- Kamau with SMG. PanO is really lacking them, comparatively, and it's just strange.