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Varuna speculation

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Wombat85, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    MO are considerably more integrated into the Pano military than most people seem to think. Best example is the Knights of Santiago, who operate onboard Pano Naval ships as Marines. This isn't just the occasional loan, this comes across as being significantly more prominent.
     
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  2. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    They don't even need to come up with a fluff justification.

    The Church is part of PanO, and PanO is part of the Church--but their forces still aren't 100% integrated like some people seem to insinuate.

    So Corregidor is part of Haqqislam?

    After all: Mobile Brigada, Alguaciles, and Iguanas all serve with Qapu Khalqi fleets.
    Maybe Alguaciles are part of Merovingia since they're the argued reason why we have a blister of an Alguacile Hacker?

    Those PanO Naval ships also likely have PanO military forces--the KoS might not have their own ships and it's just more convenient to have them hitch rides as part of a PanO force.

    It's important to remember this:
    The addition of NA2 forces has not, outside of the JSA, seemed to affect other factions. JSA seems to have been an extremely special case.
     
    #702 kanluwen, Aug 18, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  3. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    friars are new, and yet exist, The swiss guard are undoubtedly related to the church you know being swiss flipping guard.

    but sure Kan, youve got the inside loop on what the background really says ;) we'll just ignore the MO units in every sectorial, the way the background puts em in the command structure and the fact that the church is a major aspect of pano fluff. makes sense.


    Shhhhh now, MO is here to stay :)
     
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  4. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    It's also completely possible to leave singular units - Montesas in SAA, BF's in NCA, Hospitallers in Sval, etc, while removing MO as a sectorial and its units from vanilla. That would adress the integration, but made MO a force distinct from PanO.
     
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  5. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    So where are the Swiss Guard in MO?
    I seem to have a better handle on it than you do. Pre-Blackfriars, there were no Military Orders units in the Neoterran Sectorial. You're welcome to try to shift goalposts and talk about the Swiss Guard, but that doesn't change that you'd be shifting goalposts and still be wrong. :)

    That's what the JSA players said too. :)
     
  6. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Which is exactly what I was getting at from the outset. Druze didn't get taken out of QK, MB didn't get taken out of CJC, etc.

    JSA had a fluff reason to get split off. It also seems to have had a gameplay balancing reason, in that Invincible Army is on the way--as are the Svalarheima Sectorials for both PanO and JSA.

    Eventually something will have to be done as otherwise you have a huge mess of profiles.
     
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  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    cant argue with someone that doesnt understand the relationship between the swiss guard and the church lol

    And "pre-black friars" all you want.

    That actually makes your case weaker as CB went out of their way to add an MO unit to the sectorial. maybe they agreed with you and thought hte MO vibe in NCA wasnt strong enough.

    Adding the BF is clear evidence they want that vibe there.

    Its here to stay, deal with it
     
  8. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    You also can't argue with someone who understands the difference between the Military Orders and the Church when talking about units.

    Swiss Guard are related to the Neovatican. Never said they aren't.

    I DID however state that until the introduction of the Friars, Neoterra did not have any units from the Military Orders in their Sectorial.

    Want to keep trying to misrepresent arguments?
     
  9. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    "The Order of Santiago usually works side by side with the PanOceanian Navy, assimilated into their crews or with their own attack and boarding ships, easily recognised by the red cross of Santiago stamped on their sides"

    "The Knights of Santiago are also responsible for PanOceanian space transport security. The members of this Order share control of security with Bureau Aegis on some of the Circular lines..."

    "Because the Order's relationship with the Navy sees Knights assuming posts of great responsibility in naval ships and bases..."

    "The Knights of Santiago form part of the allocation of officers in the Panoceanian Navy..."

    Those quotes from the Human Sphere book, imply to me that this is something substantially stronger than mercenary contracts, or the Nomad/Haqislam set up. I think more crucially, it makes sense to me from a fluff perspective, that the NeoVatican would allow its troops to serve alongside regular military forces, and that they become a supplimental force in many areas. I think it was Montesa that actually created very deliberately to work on Accon, and that would imply, to work alongside the regular forces on that planet. I am not trying to say that there is full integration, but that there is a substantial amount that fits well with the way that MO forces are included in other Pano sectorials.

    I would not necessarily be against MO getting split out to free up some design space in Pano, but fluffwise it definitely doesn't make sense.
     
  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Classic Kan,
     
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  11. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    So, did you have anything to actually refute the argument or no?

    Because as it stands it seems to just be YOU read into an argument something that wasn't being argued, and now that you've been called out on it you're trying to play it off.
     
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  12. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Love ya work mate.
     
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  13. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The Military Orders probably distinctly differ from the other PanO troops in that the MO troops are raised, funded and trained by the NeoVatican Military Order Subsidiary Corporations. They are essentially PMCs for the NeoVatican Corporation that are permanently contracted to provide forces to the PanO military (perhaps legally provided to provide that contract?) which they then do, but they are contracted PMCs.

    Arguably the Swiss Guard are the same, although it seems distinctly possible to me that as the NeoVatican is of critical important to PanO, perhaps the Hexahedron is much more involved in that unit's creation than regular MO troops? Especially as they aren't religious. I think it's likely that the Swiss Guard regiment is a PanO military regiment recruited from veterans who provide elite strike capability to the Hexahedron and also have a role in the defence of the NeoVatican and it's holdings on NeoTerra. Especially as that would mean that the Hexahedron would be able to keep the ultimate reigns on the Church in their hands, if you like, something they'd probably quite appreciate! Which is maybe why they are in NCA, not the MO, as ultimately? They follow the orders coming from the Hexahedron, not the NeoPope or whatever (which the Knights ultimately have allegiance too).

    Anyway, they should make MO a NA2 force with PanO support troops and REMs and then use the loss of the MOs from PanO Sectorals to make those Sectorals feel more rounded and fleshed out with respect to the varied and interesting PanO cultural backgrounds. Occasionally a Sectoral could have a MO troop as well, that'd be cool, but they aren't in Vanilla perhaps? I think that'd be good for MO and good for PanO too, tbh.
     
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  14. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    The Church and the Orders are so integrated into PanO, from top to bottom, that a spilt is extremely unlikely. The Church is the controlling government organ for Resurrections, the Hospital Bank is one of the largest of the Sphere, much less PanO, the Church is part of government and society at every level with representation and a large influence on every planet. Any split would almost certainly mean the wholesale destruction of PanO.
     
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  15. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    The Swiss Guards are recruited in the same way they are now, from Church members from Switzerland. They serve as recruits in the lower ranks of the guard, and then if they wish to rise in rank have to serve a minimum (I believe three or four) number of combat tours in a regular regiment. They much earn at least one commendation for valor, after which they can rejoin the Guard as an NCO. After that, the NeoVatican makes them available for secondment to the PMC as needed. However, their allegiance is always to the NeoVatican and NeoPapacy.
     
  16. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    The resurrections piece is pretty key actually. There is a civil service run side for atheists, but the church holds the bulk of the responsibility.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
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  17. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    JSA split got really bad backlash and removal of MO will be even worse.
    There are no fluff reasons so far. Gameplay wise should we move to NA2 every CC sectorial and just the ones that is the most different from the others? That is the point that every sectorial in a faction has different strengths while keeping similar theme.
     
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  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I don't know about you, guys, but I'd really like to see all that passive aggressiveness go.

    The fluff makes it clear that MO forces are deeply integrated with PanO military, but that still leaves the question if MO as a separate force represented by the sectorial operates in equal integration. Personally I think that describing it as a religious PMC makes a lot of sense.
     
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  19. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Time for some condescending talk.

    CB was always planning to make the JSA split happen some day. It's all over the fluff and explicitly stated in a Gutier article.

    By now MO is as PanO as it gets. Crafting theories what to do with the game 5 years from now is premature. A MO split can happen, but not this year or the next one. You'll get actual hints in the fluff that it is coming.

    Have a nice day. Can we go back to Varuna?
     
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  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well we are bit out off steam. Interplanetario "only" showed 2 Kamau renders.

    And knowing we still hadnt seen more profiles/units for Vedic/TAK i would expect Varuna rules soon....
     
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