Thinking a lot about Helots, and the unique niche they might fill: I think we can all see the appeal of a warband-esque unit. Templates, some CC ability, and maybe a grenade of some type (Nimbus plus, Frag, etc.) I think we all agree that this would be a new and unique play addition for PanO. What if their design went another way too? They're integrated into the population, and they have a freedom movement, so perhaps something a bit more clandestine than simply running forward with a template weapon. What about something like Limited Camouflage? Inferior Infiltration or full Infiltration? It's hard to know what kind of weaponry they might have... I assume they can use weapons ergonomically designed for humans, and aren't using bio-weapons like we hear about with Hungries. So I can see the appeal of getting a unit that's a functional cross between a Daylami and a Foxtrot. Inexpensive, bare bones, Irregular, with high potential for disruption. The equipment and no-frills profiles of a Foxtrot with the point breaks of the Daylami. That kind of setup would be a great foil to the more expensive units we know about (ORCs, Cutter, Crocs, Kamau) and would deter players from simply taking 8 or 9 Fusiliers (if Fusiliers end up being AVA total.) It would end up being a bit like Hassassin Bahram, where you have the ultra-professional Hassassins contrasted with the Irregular Daylami and Mutts to create a very diverse force that uses amazing professional troops to support high-risk/high-reward irregular units capable of asymmetric point trades. In this theoretical setup, I'm on the fence about adding a utility ability that might raise their cost... Something like Protheion, Sensor or 6-2 MOV... But I do like the notion that other species get abilities that helps show us that they have unique physiology, and aren't just human statlines in fish suits.
So, some kind of PanO fashioned Hunzakut? Why not. I have to admit that I'm quite used to the full regular that PanO sports on but things exotic is what we want for our sectorials so I'm all with this.
Yeah, a PanO Hunzakut is a good way of phrasing it. Giving a Camo Infiltrator to Varuna would be fun in tandem with the Croc Minelayer too.
How about going the other way, just CC, no template or rng weapon, extreme impetus and dirty cheap. Some kind of transformation to represent the lost suit, with less ARM but more STR, MOV and gets Berserk. Mechaniced deployment instead of infiltration, they just get dumped all together from a helicopter on the front lines, the way the Tohaa wanted. sounds fun and different. (wont dream of smoke, dont want the let down)
If people don't want to be let down, they should stop speculating immediately cause we're not getting anything more advanced or unique than what NCA has currently.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Swiss are a rare unit archetype, and unique for Sectorial play. Auxilia are pretty rare (g:synch at that cost isn't common.) Hexas have some great profiles. AVA3 Fugazi are uncommon. Devas and Garuda with PanO are unique. The locust markman and drop bear profiles are unique.
So a TO HI, a MSV2 Albedo trooper, a Camo TAG with two different heavy weapons, access to mines that can be throwned like grenades, a TO LI with a Spitfire are all not unique? We share the TO HI only with Yu-Jing and CA and the Hexa Spitfire's only equivalent is the Noctifer. And I don't speak about the Matrix/Aperture Science lists full of remotes and Hackers that can be equaled only by Nomads and even there, the NCA/PanO approach is very different. @AdmiralJCJF , if you read this, I would like to thank you for the REM+EVO list you produced just after HSN3 popped out. I've played a very closed version of it and it was one of the most unique and refreshing list I've ever played and the most unexpected by any of my opponent. A very efficient list I have to admit.
Well, since the old forum must be down now, what I can give you is one of the version I use. You can easily adjust it to your feeling: Neoterran Capitaline Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) DEVA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) GROUP 2 5 1 HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) DEVA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) CLIPPER DRONBOT Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
There was a time when I was pretty sure that Atlanta and the Agema were going to be at least part of the ALEPH support for Vauna. But now that there's an MSV2 sniper in the Kamau I'm a lot less sure (I REALLY didn't see that coming!). Yeah, if they aren't a Warband then I'd expect them to fall into a Skirmisher type roll. That's the other area where PanOceania is weak, and one where they can bring a lot of flavour and be very "alien" within the faction while still not breaking the mould in terms of what is available to other factions in those terms. Yeah, this is ALWAYS my big worry about PanOceania. And it'll remain my big worry 'till I find out about a new hire at CB in a senior role who's a massive PanOceania fanboi on the level of Bostria with Yu Jing. I get the point that overall NCA are very "vanilla" in their design. It's intentional and I don't think pointing to their unique features (which they do have... I should know) really undermines the point. And, you're more than welcome. In the new "meta", with the world swept clean of Assault Hackers (by and large) due to the dominance of Killer Hacking as a support option, Remote heavy has few to no disadvantages. And, as you note, they are fun to play!
Yeah, NCA is pretty solid and interesting. Bolts could be fixed, Aquila and Auxilia get some more interesting stuff, but it's a nice army.
That's pretty solid. My current version of the same concept looks like this ('though I play with grouping constantly): Remote NCA ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) DEVA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) GROUP 2 6 1 BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) GARUDA Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30) 4.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
I think it is more because most of the NCA stuff is the most used stuff in the generalist army too and the sectorial gets two troops from Aleph that are part of the standard ones. But say to a Haqqislam player or a Nomad one that having a TO Spitfire LI is vanilla and I think they will look at you weirdly. The thing is we are the dominant faction and we act more like USA in Vietnam: carpets of napalm bombs, oustanding tracking and targeting systems, etc. and the other ones more or less play like the Vietkongs with dirty tricks, hit and run tactics etc. even if Yu-Jing is way more playing in the same ground as when they aren't playing against PanO, they act as the dominant faction. So, yes, it can be boring to see the others playing troops that have so much options that you never have a really good one but in the other hand, our opponents know that if they see one of our guy find a good spot to shoot theirs, it will hurt because we don't miss that much with our guns. To have faced PanO a couple of times, I have to admit that it is frightening because of the quality and number of the shooters as it was also my game. And I find Akalis way more vanilla than Garuda for example. The same for Croc men compared to Locusts. Except Ariadna, all the factions have their TO infiltrator. An ODD one is more uncommon. As for AHD, this will surely depends of the local meta. Mine hasn't entirely abandonned them but I only face one if any. So my Hexa can take care of it. For my list, I have played it a lot for Transmission matrix so the Clipper was pretty useful there. But a Garuda Spitfire could fit in too for more direct missions. In Vanilla, I have this that works pretty well too: Angels of Death ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 CRUSADER MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) REGULAR Hacker (Hacking Device, FastPanda) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) GROUP 2 6 PEACEMAKER Spitfire + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (1 | 27) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) AKAL COMMANDO Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW. (1.5 | 28) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Yeah, I think NCA is actually one of the more unique Sectorials in the game. "Unique" and "exciting" may not mean the same thing. A Camo Infiltrator with mines and a rifle sounds amazing to PanO players, despite being one of the most unexciting, non-unique unit archetypes in the game.
At least one if not 2 too much to call it unique then. Especially that it's not "that" different from unhackable 1.5W TO found in other factions. But you have some point, I should have probably use word "predictable robustness".
I think that's the thing with NCA... a lot of the "cool stuff" they get is actually borrowed. Anyway, this thread isn't about NCA, it's about Varuna. What I would want for that specific type of list (Remote heavy) would be to include some of the remotes in a fireteam with Kamau and/or Fusiliers.
