Will Varuna get Aleph units? The Special Situations group is, according to the background, legally based on Acontecimento, Neoterra, Shentang/Yutang, Concilium and Paradiso. Which explains why the ISS, NCA and SAA have Aleph troops attached to them, but I dunno if Varuna will get them. Might be a good thing mind, force the Sectoral to have more unique Varunan troops. I hope that only the REMs, Fusiliers, Machinists, Trauma Doc and okay the ORCs are in other Sectorals and everything else is solely Varunan Sectoral, cross-Sectoral troops has been a bit of a bane for PanO I think (ORCs in NCA and SAA was not cool). The one Aleph troop I can maybe see them getting is the Shukra, because it's an investigation type troop, with a background in anti-criminal activity and counter-terrorism work. For a PanO Sectoral which is primary an internal counter-terrorism force (as opposed to the NCA general rapid strike role and the SAA full on foreign ground expeditionary assault force) that seems very suitable! Also Dakinis in NCA now!
Hm... anyone thinks that actually Shukra could appear in VIRD as they are described to be a "leaders & investigators" ?
Shukra supporting a Cutter, and I'd take back everything I've ever said about PanO and nice things. Chain of Command and Counter Intel for 25 points is amazing for a TAG list. There's even some decent combat support with a template, biovisor and high WIP.
What's wrong with ORCs in SAA and NCA? I think the duo and haris opti9ns are annoyingly stifled, but the hmg LT is actually pretty solid. Any change to the orc id want wpuld be universal duo, grenades (em, stun, normal? Don't care) for the bsg variant that cpuld be a hard is for swc, and more ordinary specialists. I'd like them to be like the overfunded pano military grabbed the better Fusiliers and wrapped em up in armor.
Part of the problem with ORCs is that they pick up all the disadvantages of HI but have none of the assistance in mitigating them that the higher end HI have. But, because of their BS, PH and ARM, they still have very high costs. So they end up being a lot of points sunk into something which the simplest of HI-counters (CC, EM, Hacking etc) deals with very easily. Now, that would be fine... IF they brought something to the table to make it worthwhile. But they don't. Grenades would be a VERY good start (I'd stick them on the Combi myself because otherwise that thing is never going to be played, but the BSG is great too) and wider ranges of weapon options will also be good (I still have hope for a SMG to go with that Feuerbach). As it is, they are ok for certain specific situations simply because they are the only Haris in NCA (meaning they make a significant difference to the order efficiency of an NCA force just for showing up) but have basically no role in SAA. For Varuna... we shall see.
Orcs are also decent in the shock army because their HI are not that much better than the humble Orc.
No. If you want order efficiency then you go for the forward deploying and infiltrating options along with Regular Core and Bagh Mari Haris (both very strong for reasonable prices). If you want an offensive option the Guarda can actually advance thanks to the Eclipse and gunfights well. Or the Montessa which pulls solid attack options up to the table midline. There is nothing the ORC brings to Acon which they can't get elsewhere, more effectively and often for cheaper. Hell... they even fail to be the best B5 option because "Hello Dragao!"
Back to Varuna, I'm really looking forward for these varunian orcs. I always loved the Icestorm Orc model, and this new Varuna scheme color with some black and white and the goblin faces ok the helmet makes them extra cool. So we all agree the key for useful orcs is some new equipment options and fireteam options, probably mixed with other troops. What do you think these will be? Orc + Kamau? Orc + Helot? Haris, or also special core? All orcs can Haris, and no SWC cost? Red Fury...?
The problem with ORC + Kamau is it's highly questionable that the ORC is ever going to be best on point. Mimetism is a powerful tool for very cheap. ORC + Fusilier is about the only combo likely to actually get them on the field regularly.
I think a lot of orc-hate is from a lack of playtime. Suboptimal this and that. There isn't an HMG option with that kind of BS and armor available for that cheap in nca or saa. I get that they don't do super well against hackers: don't take them against nomads and or mutts. But ph14 is pretty amazing when you've got warbands breathing down your neck. And sure, aquila, montessa, guarda... are all 6-18 points more expensive. This argument-making about optimal is why I'm extremely inclined to run ORCs the way I did bolts. Too many theory-craft arguments without playing. The bolts open up a completely different NCA that can curbstomp in a way that pure minmax fails. I'd wager the ORCs can help do similar. I doubt mixed links for varuna. I do hope there's more equipment (AND SPECIALISTS) that make an orc core a desirable thing in the way a knight core is so much fun. Feuerbach, hmg, tinbot MRifle, FO Combi, bsg+grenades. 3.5-4 swc of hurt in a Sectorial with superb infiltrating camo... it would come in like 20 points cheaper than the joan/defersen train.
No, but you can pay a bit more and have vaaastly superior Swiss or Tikbalang. There is no point in ORC unless you are doing particullary skewed list or for some reason have 44 pts left.
Just looked the 44pt Orc HMG and the Hospital 41pt superior in every way..... Orc's as they are is only for masochists and..... just masochists
Except the hospitaller hmg isnt in saa or nca. I get that there's overlap in Vanilla; so just take the hospitaller in Vanilla and then have an "oh shit" moment when your hmg goes Impetuous and can't gain cover. The Hospitaller also cant be an LT. "But why would i want that to be my LT?" you might ask. Because you're good at prebuilt compositional choices CB has built into the game and can use them for clever strategic ploys in infinity, that's why. And if by "a bit more" one meant to say "a choice between a hexa, 3 fugazi, 2 Fusilier FO, a Bolt Spitfire, or CSU duo or some other things" in nca or "another orc, most of a Regulars fireteam, or a cluster of sensor and sniffer REMs among others" in saa, then ya, fair point, I s'pose. F'reals. I get it: it's hard to say no to the absolute best minmax HI in the game in favor of less-good but more versatile composition, like the other factions do.
