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Varuna deforms the meta pretty intensely

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Hecaton, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Clearly the Marauder HMG isn't that obligatory in your lists, considering it doesn't exist.

    Hopefully some other players got something useful out of this thread though. The options are there. Even if people don't want to use them.
     
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  2. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Firstly this is somewhat false equivalence as both the Nisse and Intruder cannot be in fireteams meaning they do not shoot anywhere near as well are limited to B1 and aren't crutching on SSL2 to erase counter play options. Additionally an Intruder sniper on ARO duty is 40pt do nothing HMG food.
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Eh, meant the Minutemen hmg specifically because it can be put in a Grunt fireteam now.

    I wasn't disputing that the options exist. I don't think anyone was. Just that it constrains list-building in a unique way.
     
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  4. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Offtopic a little but in my experience Intruder Snipers are great ARO units if you use them carefully (esp under smoke when not vsing msv2). They're just different from Kamau, which can't hide as well, and less often wants to.
     
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  5. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    The Kamau is a more extreme version of either, though generally can be solved in similar ways. Going head to head with either isn’t the best solution, spec fire, out maneuvering with infiltrators, and coordinated orders are all much safer ways of clearing them. I never said an unlinked Nissie is just as good as a fully linked Kamau, only that the solution is often similar.
     
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  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Surely it depends on terrain? Posters in this thread seem to be giving this mythical kamau 100% visibility over 100% of the board.
    Chain rifle is a BIG template and bikes are FAST. I've played on enough boards over the years to see that yes, maybe a bike could work as a tool for dealing with a good overwatch piece. It might not be, but it's what, 11-15 points? If it doesn't work due to terrain, use it for something else.
    AD has always been a useful tool against dug-in opponents, nothing since the VIRD release has changed that, but again, if you go to an event and the TO has set up terrain badly, that's on them, not on utility of AD.
     
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  7. raf999

    raf999 Member

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    1) Terrain seems vital. A table shouldn't have a perfect non infiltrating sniper spot from which a single model can see most of the game objectives,.

    2) shoot him. The MSV1 Frontovik sniper fully linked is on par with him, you are at 50% winning the shootout and 50% of losing it. A fully linked HMG vet kazak has even better odds. It's risky, yes, but can get the job done.

    3) trick him. Spec fire infiltrating grenades can work pretty good (looking at you LGL ranger), antiposed with 6-6 move starting in camo can reach him before they get all shot down, maybe even a dog warrior could reach chain rifle range tanking a couple AROs due to total immunity.
     
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  8. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    Dog warrior rush certainly seems like a decent idea, depending on the terrain. Remember that their linked antipodes are effectively immune to the jammers that are so vital for protecting Varuna’s midfield game.

    EDIT: Dog warrior was the wrong word - I meant to say Devil Dogs, although you can also do it with the Streloks in TAK
     
    #108 Spinnaker, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Why would they be? Becoming Isolated makes it so they turn off, just like a Synch bot.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I don't think that's a truism. Taking missions with three objectives in the middle as an example, most tables have a position in the DZ where a sniper can see 2/3 of the objectives.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If they're in the middle of the board it's not much use, you'd be better off using an infiltrator.
     
  12. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    You’d think that, right? Here’s the kicker - CB specifically removed the rule that caused that so g:sync units in general (bots included) are completely immune to isolated.
     
  13. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Might get you a nice route to the rest of the team though
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    This is why the rules wiki needs a changelog.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Probably not gonna win a firefight against the rest of the team, even if you make it past the Helots etc.
     
  16. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Only has to shank one to strip that juicy 5 man link bonus. Kamau becomes a lot easier to deal with when he's not at an extra +3
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    This is true, but it's not that easy, considering the fireteam bonuses. A fusilier is shooting you with 2 dice on 18's if you try to attack him that way.
     
  18. SpectralOwl

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    To the contrary, an AD getting into the back arc of a Fireteam outside their ZoC is devastating. Had a Tiger Soldier eat almost my whole Fusilier link a few days ago with just a Combi Rifle purely because I'd focused too much on long-range ARO and deployed all my close-up defenders at the front of my DZ. Van Zant in particular would have been the nightmare scenario for my deployment during that game.
    That is extremely good to know, and very difficult to spot in the relevant rules text if you aren't looking for it. I actually went and bought a box of Auxilia today; partly because this rule means Auxbots are now great at wiping away every Jammer platform in the game with a good chance of trading up against Ghazi.

    Against Varuna specifically, remember that the Devil Dog's Synched Antipode has Sensor too; G:Synchronised Sensor units appear to be the safest ways in the game to check rooftop Camo Markers which would be very useful for exposing Helots and ZCs to attack or occasionally catching a hidden Croc Man.
     
  19. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Nah, cos you're not gonna be daft enough to leave your arse out of cover. 15s is a bit more sensible. If you're going molotok you might even be able to pull range mods, though that is unlikely granted
     
  20. raf999

    raf999 Member

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    Infinity is a dice game. Plan all you want, sometimes even the avatar can lose a fight against a single line kazak because he gets critted in ARO.

    You can play the dice game either with the frontovik sniper (he is nearly the same as the Kamau with just -1BS when fully linked), having about 50% chance of success, or you can try with a bit better odds using a BS13 fully linked HMG. If you win good, you eliminated the biggest ARO threat from the opponent, you lose tough luck maybe you can still do the objectives or shake hands and play again next time.

    If you don't want to play the dice game, then try antipodes, dog warriors, infiltrators with mines/speculative or templates and such.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.