VapeCrane: the hero that ISS deserves.

Point of clarification here - the FTO version of Yasbir does not come with Smoke. However, there are two other ways to get Smoke in the Yara Haddad link: the Muyib Grenadier and the NCO Ghulam.

The combination that I think is more rare is a HI that can lay its own smoke cover, as a solo piece, for advances. The one exception I can think of is the GDA, which is not currently available for comparison and may be revised substantially.

 

Al Fasid have a smoke grenade launcher on the HMG profile.

 

Grey Rifles from Ariadna Bring their own Smoke as well, and those guys are similar to the Crane.

In other news: Azrail Has AP+EXP+Fire Weaponry, just adding this here since someone told me CB does not favor Haqqislam.

 

The Feuerbach profile got +1B, and yeah perhaps this guy is not the end of the world but...then the sectorial it is in has sekbans and massive imrpovements across the board, like having a doctor that actually works!

Now, let's move the thread a bit in the intended direction.

I did mention the Crane needs a better gun because when list building for ISS, you can easily shoot yourself in the foot when picking Crane...
Because since the Crane has no particularly defined role in this sectorial having redundancy in shooting will make it a safer option.

Consider the following: Crane is now a Wildcard so he probably has a role in being a bodyguard to Fireteams, for the wu ming it's cool, but Celestial Guards? Why waste SWC on those guys?? I mean the Spitfire CG is a worse Spitfire Crane in the link, and the sniper has conflict with the fireteams need to push the midfield (with good specialist options and crane you kinda have too to some degree)

By bringing in other big guys like Hsien or Su Jian you'll find yourself with a handicapped and disjointed List.

 

I can see an argument for that the Crane's Spitfire should be a weapon with exotic ammo such as an AP Spitfire and maybe even that the Crane's Multi Rifles should be Multi Marksman Rifles, but I think that you can not rely on the Crane pulling all the heavy lifting of a link like the sectorial seems to do. What ever link the Crane slots themselves into needs to be able to pull some of the heavy lifting and besides Celestial Guards there isn't much that actually offers the Crane much utility.

Cranes themselves do not bring utility to a trooper like counterparts in other sectorials; Shang-Ji have TacAware and Tinbots, Asawira are significantly cheaper thanks to Frenzy, and Mobile Brigada are more focused on the task of damage platform.
When we look at Wu Ming they are missing what signifies a modern CB designed heavy infantry; a primary ability to leverage (arguably a bit like how Jujak sort of falls short of being useful). Wu Ming's big problem is that unlike Zuyong and Jujak they don't have very good specialists and unlike Zuyong they don't have TacAware, while their generally decent loadouts don't quite make up for it, the primary function of making a Wu Ming link work is to slot in the sectorial's cheaper (and oddly not wildcard) utility unit; the Zhanying. Zhanying and Crane compete for a range of utility and the Crane will make a Wu Ming link more expensive instead of less expensive.
Now, I don't think we need to discuss the merits of taking really, really, cheap Kuang Shi that you don't need to care so much for whether they live or not as the primary fillers for surrounding the Crane with; but I will note that this Core will naturally leave you with difficulties getting decent SWC options into the list.

As such, among the three Cores in ISS, Celestial Guards are the only one that's actually all that viable for a Crane to join. Celestial Guards are also falling behind. Not having access to the primary tools by which bog-standard light infantry stays viable (a HMG and a low cost) and not having access to what makes the more expensive or esoteric light infantry relevant (examples ranges from; infiltration a'la Metros, cheap mines a'la Regulars, doctor+3 a'la Ghulam, deployable repeaters a'la Ghulam or Regulars, and a few others - not that all of these are expensive)

To put it more simply; I'm lacking good ways of spending SWC and points when it comes to Celestial Guards beyond their smoke launcher. If anything I think to make Cranes decent you need to work with the Celestial Guards.
@Gero so to answer your question about why waste SWC on Celestial Guards; it's not that you don't have SWC to waste, it's that the SWC expenditure possible on Celestial Guards don't make much sense.

The sectorial does have some pretty nifty Haris Fireteams, but they're not as relevant for slotting in a Crane into.

Last but not least, let me just say how nifty I think it would be if CSU were "Celestial Guards" similar to NCA or if they had SWC options.

 

I think missing the paramedic is a huge deal for them. Linkable paramedics are fucking stupidly good in the current meta. I've heard the complaint that factions like Pan-O where shit you normally put down doesn't get back up, now seems to get "doctored" almost more frequently than N3 Haqqislam.

 

Yeah, that's true, but it is not something you can't work around. I would rather see them gain something on the theme of the sectorial instead of being just specialised in having inadequate weapons and gear. Like Riotstoppers, minelayer depreps or the likes.

Just... point is the Crane isn't the weak spot of the sectorial. I think it is in fact one of few strong points. So it would not do to improve this area specifically.

 

That I can agree with. Make the rest of the army better, better links etc.

 

Smokegrenades on kuang shi, bao and/or ninja?
Baos linkable with celestials, pheasants wildcard? Would make for some funky linkteams.

 

After update my position still the same -- Yu Jing have the best sculpts, but we never get best toys for playing. Sad.

 

Smoke on KS would be too good. Is there any MSV2 unit with smoke? If yes then maybe Bao with smoke wouldnt be that ridiculus idea. Smoke on ninja is something i want for a while now, and its nothing that new, CA has it even better with speculo and MSV3 HMG.
I have no idea why they dropped Bao core and didnt make Pheasants and zhanying proper wildcards.

 

MSV1 with smoke works in a core link works the same so long as the target shoots back thanks to sixth sense, and yes there's shitloads of them.

Bahram also does MSV2+Smoke in the same link.

That said I think the idea that MSV2, smoke etc being too strong, is a very outdated mode of thinking from when links were much weaker before wildcards were a thing. Now we have ridiculous shit like the Vostok running around with ODD and hitting everything on 18s in core links with marksmanship. I don't find the idea of sticking a Hsien in a core, even if it has smoke available to it too strong when compared to some of the links available in the game.

 

Actually, yes, a Hsien as Wildcard instead of the Crane would make a lot of sense for how things are developing in this game. ISS is missing a decent HMG in a Core outside of the very specific lists built around Wu Ming seeing how the sectorial seems to abhor MOD stacking and how ISS seems to be perhaps the best sectorial at adhering to the Concilium Convention (meaning plain regular ammo guns on so many units).
Zhanying would also make a lot of sense as a wildcard trooper as, unless I miss my mark, they're the low level agents who get the fun job of working with riffraff mercs and cops.

If there's one sectorial in Yu Jing that would have linkable Rui Shi it's probably ISS, I'm missing linkable Son-Bae more in ISS than I do in WB, and I would've greatly preferred a deprep over a mine on the Kanren.

 

Smoke and MSV2 in the same core is 1 thing. Smoke and msv2 on one guy with sniper rifle may be overdoing it a little (this is all about Bao getting smoke grenades, not Bao linking with smoke generator).
Also msv1 in core works as msv2 only in reactive, if you wanna HMG something in active you need proper msv2.
Im not saying msv2+smoke is the be all end all. Im saying its a good and tested combination that some factions can use with sooo much ease compared to YJ. This is why I still want 1 or 2 good sources of smoke in YJ. My personal hopes and dreams are Eclipse for hulangs and smoke for ninjas.

 

Not according to @ijw it works as long as the MSV1 guy is being shot at. If you shoot at someone and they shoot back (like another link with sixth sense) then there's no penalty for the MSV1 guy.

 

Oh, in that case wording here is very unfortunate.

► If the user is the target of a BS Attack through a Zero Visibility Zone, they ignore
the -6 MOD for responding with a BS Attack

 

I have to point out how inane, not to mention unworkable, it would be if it required you to be attacked prior to you declaring your own BS Attack...

 

@Mahtamori
You are correct, in every regard you seem to have a level head when talking about ISS, since it displeases me greatly how the sectorial feels held back by arbitrary locks on performance Milestones which every new release seems to achieve; one example I can think of is Sophie, sure she's amazing, but she's the only doctor we have and pretty sure our only engie as well.
Kuang shis are kuang Shis forever.
CGs need something, Bao still need Better Link Options, Pheasant stand alone is awesome, but still weird to get into fireteams.
Zhanying have become even more Gold.
And yes our Wu Ming are starting to lag behind some.