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Vanilla Haqqislam Update for 2022 onwards [Lists and Discussion]

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by HeadChime, Dec 13, 2022.

  1. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    Hey everyone! I'm back for my annual forum post about vanilla Haqqislam.

    The last update I posted is here.

    I'll skip the context about me this time and just dive right in. If you are curious about who I am, what my stance is on giving advice, and why on earth you should listen to me then check out the Context section in my last post. As I said before - these are my observations and I'm sure others will disagree. This is fine! We all experience the game differently.


    Overview

    I'm going to discuss three areas in this thread:

    1. How has Haqqislam changed over the last year?
    2. What does [my] tournament meta look like, and what do the strongest lists do to win?
    3. What are some example Haqqislam lists, and how can they function in a tournament setting?
    Haqqislam Changes

    In my opinion, 2022 was big year for Haqqislam for two main reasons:
    1. New Hassassins!
    2. Duos
    New Hassassins:

    Well operation Blackwind came out and it brought with it a few new releases for Haqqislam. Most notable are the Bokhtar and Sunduqbut. I think it also brought a new profile to the Nadhir, but this is less important, and Ayyars were reworked. The Bokhtar and Sunduqbut are both very interesting troops, particularly because new heavy infantry don't come around often for this faction.

    The Bokhtar is an interesting profile, which resembles something like an upskilled Mukhtar. You have the BS13, the MSV, the Mimetism-3, and many profiles carry a Red Fury. All points of similarity. Where the Bokhtar significantly deviates is in its higher armour (4 vs 1), it's better dodge (16 vs 11), and its ability to have Tactical Awareness / NCO / Parachutist. The Bokhtar feels expensive to me and I haven't got it on the table, but I've heard excellent things about the Parachutist version with Red Fury. I can see how dropping a heavy onto the edge of your opponent's Deployment Zone is excellent. That Red Fury, with the additional LT order from NCO, is going to do work. Particularly when you factor in the mobility from SuperJump. Where I'm, personally, put off is the high price combined with the lack of Stealth. I think hacking is a big part of the defensive game at the moment, and so it feels difficult to fully leverage a non-Stealthed heavy infantry. I'd personally say the profile is situationally very useful, but has some notable downsides. Consider this troop if you don't see a lot of hacking, or no more than you can deal with using a Fiday, and you want something to quickly drop in and kill squishy targets in the enemy backline.

    The Sunduqbut (Sunny as I call it), is a troop that I've managed to get on the table a few times, and I really like it. The 49 point Viral Rifle / Minelayer has performed well for me on multiple occasions and I will be including it in my lists for some time to come. I think the troop is mildly overcosted on points but definitely undercosted on swc. With the 0.5swc cost of the Sunny I can run a Guided Missile package, Liberto, Knauf, and a Mukhtar, and still get another gun from the Sunny. I wouldn't have enough swc left to get an Asawira. I like this troop because the Minelayer skill lets it fake being a Liberto (just don't use the Decoy rule), and it obviously contributes something to my defence even before I've spent orders. I really enjoy building defensively oriented lists, and the Sunny lets me take a very impressive gun whilst also adding to my defensive network. Burst 4 Viral is absurd and easily shreds light and medium targets. Seriously - check the Dice Calculator. It's really, really impressive in face-to-face odds. In terms of downsides it also lacks Stealth, like the Bokhtar, but the Forward Deployment and Camouflage rules let it walk past midfield repeaters on its first attack run. It can also leverage these skills to approach at an angle that avoids opposing hacking. It's also a bit slow, being 4-4 instead of 6-2, and lacking any kind of enhanced mobility or extra orders (No Tac Aware, No NCO, No Climbing+ etc.). So like the Bokhtar I think this is a situationally useful troop, but if you're running a list that's tight on swc then I would recommend giving it a try.

    Duos:

    Duos significantly upgraded Haqq's order efficiency because moving two troops with one order is miles better than just moving one. In fact the duos that Haqq get are absurdly powerful and really have buffed the faction to a significant degree. Here are what I think the most interesting duo inclusions are:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-14-45.png

    Notice how this list includes a good mixture of specialists (Asawira DR, Mukhtar Hacker, Rafiq FO, Namurr Spec Ops), and a good mixture of fighters (Asawira Spitfire, Mukhtar Red Fury, Shakush). What is most notable of course is that many of these troops were very common inclusions in Haqq lists for some time before duos were introduced. Asawiras and Mukhtars have long been staples due to their powerful profiles. And perhaps most significantly of all, putting an Asawira in a duo fireteam suppresses its Frenzy. This is a massive boon because you get to keep your cover whilst gunfighting instead of becoming Impetuous and losing it.

    I'll quickly discuss each inclusion in the list and why you may want to take them:
    1. Asawira Spitfire: One of the best gunfighters in Haqqislam, but normally suffers from Frenzy. Being in a fireteam stops Frenzy activating, which really enhances its durability (because it gets to keep cover bonuses!). The Asawira is discounted in points due to Frenzy, but now Frenzy doesn't activate because of being in a fireteam. This is silly.
    2. Asawira Doctor: One of the best toolbox profiles in Haqqislam. A fast specialist that shoots well too. Can heal other troops in the duo, so makes something like a Mukhtar less susceptible to unlucky rolls in a face-to-face. One of the primary problems with Doctors is that often your gunfighter goes down in one place, and your Doctor is quite far away. If you have a Doctor duo'd with a gunfighter then this isn't a problem!
    3. Mukhtar Red Fury: A premier skirmisher hunter with the MSV + Mimetism combo. You'll want to consider this troop to escort specialists into the midfield and clear the way for them.
    4. Mukhtar Hacker: Probably among the best hackers in the game. Maybe? 2 wounds (sort of), BTS6, WIP14. It's just a very solid specialist. One of the problems with Hackers is projecting threat. A Hacker in a Deployment Zone doesn't really project much threat over the board. But equally you might not want to spend orders moving your Hacker when you could be doing something else. So take a Hacker in a duo and move both it and something else up too. Win-win! Note that duo'ing the Mukhtar Hacker with a heavy infantry like the Asawira is excellent because you can protect your heavy from other hackers.
    5. Namurr: Another excellent toolbox profile. It's a specialist with Tactical Awareness and very good CC. Tactical Awareness being able to activate both troops in the duo really pushes your order efficiency up to 11. Haqq now goes to 11. It's happy taking on Flamethrowers in the midfield due to Total Immunity. This means it can essentially 'protect' whatever it's linked with from the nastiest templates.
    6. Shakush: A BS14 HMG with a WIP14 specialist inside, that generates two orders. Pretty absurd. One nice thing you can do is start it in a duo with a specialist, activate them both together, move the specialist forwards but keep the Shakush behind, and then have the Shakush shoot. You're essentially using the Tactical Awareness of the Shakush to 'propel' another troop forwards, before breaking the team once they're no longer in coherency. You can alternatively duo it with a Rafiq or a Namurr in order to get a duo that generates four orders (2 Regular, 2 Tac Aware). Is this funny? Yes, absolutely. Is it good? Shrugs.
    7. Rafiq: In this season of ITS these little guys are specialists with Tactical Awareness and Marksmanship. Also note that they contain Repeaters. You can duo a Rafiq with a gunfighter and move it up (with its Repeater), while the gunfighter shoots stuff. Press a button in the midfield with the Rafiq, and then cover the area with its Repeater. Really, really nice.
    8. Shaytaniyah: WHAT? A Guided Missile REM in a duo?! Yeah, because Guided is a short skill BS Attack. Throw the Shaytaniyah in a duo. When you want to use Guided, move both troops together (getting a free move on whatever it's linked to), and then Guided as usual. Value.
    Here are the duos I've run the most with a quick explanation afterwards:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-14-57.png

    Asawira Spitfire + Mukhtar Hacker: So you move up with both a premier gunfighter, and a premier specialist. The Mukhtar can protect the Asawira by removing other hackers, and you can 'propel' the Asawira into the enemy DZ while the Mukhtar sits in the midboard (eventually breaking coherency), if you want a really powerful early-game strike. This duo also solves one of the problems with Guided Missiles, which is that Spotlight isn't that likely to go off, and therefore often costs orders achieving nothing. With this duo you get to move both troops 6" before you attempt the Spotlight, and while the Mukhtar does hacking things, the Asawira can get into position to do shooting things. This changes a Move-Spotlight order from being a little bit inefficient to being massively efficient.

    Mukhtar MSV2 + Rafiq: Tactical Awareness order on the Rafiq moves both of the duo together, then the Mukhtar gets to work clearing the midboard of skirmishers. Rafiq can then press buttons and cover the area with its Repeater. The Mukhtar is a little bit squishy so it appreciates being protected by the Rafiq's Shotgun templates and the Repeater as potent ARO threats.

    As you can see, Haqqislam have some absolutely A tier duos available. They've made the faction far more order efficient, and shockingly buffed the Asawira, which is really unbelievable. The ability to simultaneously move your best gunfighter and a specialist is fantastic.


    Tournament Meta

    Here is a sample of strong tournament lists that have won multiple events. Obviously there are variations on all of these lists:

    Steel Phalanx Big Boys:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-15-8.png

    This is a list that generates 13 orders across the 10 troops, and gets to place a fireteam of multi-wound models with Mimetism-6 in the midboard, with a WIP15 Doctor to back them up. If they ever get into trouble you have burst 2 Eclipse on 16s. You have Sixth Sense and +1BS on the fireteam too. This list might look like a pushover, but it's throwing a lot of Stealthy, 2W models at you and if you don't stop them then you will have a bad time.

    Nomad's Goodstuff:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-15-17.png

    This list is all about overhwelming the opposition with threats. Kill the Puppetmaster? Oh well, it'll throw an UberfallKommando at you or a TAG. Kill the TAG and the Uberfall? It'll throw Puppetbots at you and use the Hecklers Panda to start using Spotlight + Guided. And the list isn't notably defensively weak either, boasting a Jammer, a TR Remote, a TAG, and 2 Minelayers + Repeaters for control. The list wants to take opportunistic long-shots with the TAG and slowly strangle you by projecting a massive hacking network, backed up by Guided Missile support.

    Anathematic + Charontid:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-15-28.png

    I hate this list and I curse the day it was invented. The Charontid and Anathematic are two of the strongest troops in the entire game. In this list they're together! Bit and Kiss get to simultaneously launch three Pitchers at your Deployment Zone. The Anathematic can Spotlight you on 16s. Then they can use Guided Missile to effortlessly kill your pieces. The list has a lot of hacking potential, a lot of templates to defend itself, and probably the best offensive warbands in the game (Taighas). If you set up pieces to ARO Bit + Kiss (to stop them effortlessly launching Pitchers across the board) then you'll get gunned down by the MSV3 Charontid. Then they'll launch Pitchers at you afterwards. If you don't set up AROs then they'll launch Pitchers at you and Guided you. Either way, you lose. I have never won a game against this list and I consider it one of the strongest lists in the game at the moment, personally.

    Su Jian + Hac Tao:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-15-38.png

    The Hac Tao in group 2 gets 6 orders due to NCO and LT+1 Order on the Daoying. The Su Jian has a full group of 10. Two extremely tough and potent attackers are in this list - one for short range and the other for long. If you try to hit it hard then it'll throw Camouflaged Panzerfausts at you, and a surprise Hundun. Very difficult to properly attack because one of its major gunfighters doesn't even start the game on the board (Hac Tao). List is finished with two nice midfield skirmishers. There's not too much subtlety here - A robot cat runs at you whilst a Hac Tao HMG clears the way.

    Ariadna / Kosmo Goodstuff:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-15-49.png

    What do you get if you put two of the strongest warbands, one of the best skirmishers, and one of the most flexible gunfighters in the game, all together in one list? This absolute abomination! It's possible to produce this list in both vanilla Ariadna and Kosmo. The heart of it is 2 Bears, Uxia, and The Unknown Ranger. This is probably my second most hated list. It works similarly to the Nomads list - threat saturation. Each of those Bears attacks you with 2 wounds and Dogged. When you kill them, Uxia attacks you with a burst 5 Assault Pistol. When you kill her, The Unknown Ranger attacks you with MSV, Mimetism, and an AP Spitfire. The list is good at nearly everything. It's great in CC. Great at range. Has an absurd number of orders (Inspiring Leadership on Wallace), and has a heavy infantry Missile Launcher in a fireteam for AROs. If you attack into the list then you're going to have to deal with that Missile Launcher, and damage 15 Shotgun templates on 3W Bears with Total Immunity. At least the Bears' third wound comes from Dogged, so they'll die at the end of the turn......

    What Are These Lists Doing?

    Let's roughly sum up what these lists are doing:
    • Durability: Attackers mostly have multiple wounds. Many pieces have Mimetism-6, Camouflage or Hidden Deployment. Most attackers do not go down to a single unlucky roll.
    • Best-in-class threats: Attackers are among the best-in-class when it comes to shooting or close-range combat. We're seeing lots of BS15, BS14, or BS13 with Mimetism. Many threats have AP. The attackers are usually about as good as an attacker can get - they're extremely powerful.
    • Threat Saturation: Lists are going to throw 2 to 4 of those best-in-class gunfighting threats at you, and warbands on top of that.
    • Indirect AROs: Most lists are not leaning heavily on traditional AROs such as a Mimetism Snipers or things like that. In most lists you might see 1 or 2 of those troops. Instead, it's more common to see zone control like hacking, Mines, or Jammers. Within the Deployment Zone its usual to see lots of Chain Rifle templates, or Shotguns.
    • Flexibility: Every list is bringing Eclipse or Smoke Grenades. They all have the ability to press buttons with high-quality specialists. And they have guns to cover short-range and mid-range engagements. All of them bring at least one unit that's capable in CC.
    What are some example Haqqislam lists, and how can they function in a tournament setting?

    So what are Haqqislam lists looking like at the end of 2022 and how are they facing these challenges?

    Let's look at lists first:

    Player 1

    upload_2022-12-13_18-16-8.png

    upload_2022-12-13_18-16-18.png

    Player 2

    upload_2022-12-13_18-16-27.png

    upload_2022-12-13_18-16-37.png

    Player 3

    upload_2022-12-13_18-16-48.png

    upload_2022-12-13_18-16-56.png

    Player 4

    upload_2022-12-13_18-17-7.png

    upload_2022-12-13_18-17-17.png

    My current list:

    upload_2022-12-13_18-17-25.png

    List Analysis and Tournament Ideas

    Throughout 2022 Haqq lists seem to have really pulled on the following elements:
    • The Asawira Spitfire and Mukhtar Red Fury as active turn fighters.
    • The Rafiq as a duo option to escort the Mukhtar or Asawira.
    • Zuleyka / Zamira as strong trading or CC threats. Zamira more for trading given the Berserk rule, and Zuleyka for straight CC given her extra burst.
    • Lots of hacking and Guided Missiles. Hackers in the form of Barids, Al Hawwa, Ghulams, and Tuaregs.
    • Jammer Ghazi as an answer to Total Immunity (Comms Attacks ignore Total Immunity).
    • The Nadhir as a reasonably popular traditional ARO piece.
    • The rise of the Hunzakut as a nice toolbox piece. It supports a hacking network with Repeaters, and can threaten Guided Missiles using the Forward Observer skill. It's also just a cheap and competent specialist.
    • Fidays in every list (of course). These are helpful for selectively targeting one critical component of an opposing list.
    • Liberto Minelayers in every list (for zone control).
    So what do we notice about Haqq lists compared to the top lists I posted above?
    • Haqqislam lists don't usually contain as many premier gunfighters as the other lists. We're usually seeing a Mukhtar and/or an Asawira. Both are solid threats, but neither is on the level of a Hac Tao, Charontid, or Achilles.
    • Haqqislam lists are extremely strong on finesse, scalpel pieces that want to identify one particular enemy troop and carefully kill them. This comes in the form of Zuleyka / Zamira / Fidays. So whilst other lists might have more effective gunfighting, they tend to have fewer cheap throwaway units that can target a specific enemy and remove them with reliability. Fidays are the undisputed kings of this kind of targeted trading approach, but Taighas in CA are also very good at this.
    • Haqqislam lists aren't as brittle as they used to be. Many of the top lists are throwing around 17-20 effective wounds (counting NWI and Dogged as additional wounds), and Haqq can match this with the pseudo-2W on Zuleyka, the 2W on the Asawira (with Regeneration!), and the 2W on the Mukhtar. However most of our troops do have lower armour.
    • Haqqislam lists are very defensively strong. The other top lists push extremely hard on active threats and Haqqislam doesn't seem so proficient here. On the other hand, Haqqislam has a lot of zone control. Daylami, Liberto Minelayer, Ghazi, Barid Hackers, Repeaters on Hunzakut, Repeater on the Rafiq. These are all really annoying threats in the 0-8" region, and can easily slow down an advance. Haqqislam is actually one of the only factions to have a convincing answer to Bears in the Jammer Ghazi. Finally, the Nadhir is a solid ARO piece and can take some attackers by surprise.
    • Guided is absolutely in-fashion for Haqqislam, and that's probably to help give the zone control some extra 'teeth'. Not all attackers are hackable, and in these cases a Spotlight isn't too effective. However if you supplement your hacking with a Guided Missile then suddenly it's far more potent. Haqqislam can use this to punish incoming attackers. Guided is also helpful for Haqqislam because our gunfighters are a tiny bit weaker than those found in other lists.
    • Haqq plays similarly to Nomads and Ariadna in terms of producing lists with a wide range of competent models. Combined, Steel Phalanx, and Yu Jing (as presented above) focus incredible power in one or two areas, whereas Nomads, Haqqislam, and Ariadna focus moderate power in lots of areas. This makes these lists harder to attack. A Combined list without the Anathematic and Charontid will struggle. Same for YJ and losing the Hac Tao and Su Jian. Haqqislam can pull power from the Mukhtar, the Asawira, various Hackers, a Guided network, Fidays, Zuleyka / Zamira. All of the other lists can do this to some extent, but Haqqislam is really, notably good at this. It can run many strong strategies in one list.
    • Haqqislam plays every part of the game. Good warbands with smoke. Good camouflage. Good gunfighters. Good CC. Good hacking. Haqqislam's excellence comes from being good enough at literally every part of the game.
    How do we execute our strategies with Haqqislam against the other top lists?
    • We set up a strong ARO network on turn 1, which often consists of Jammers, Mines, Hackers, cheap templates, and a Nadhir. We hope to slow down enemy threats with the Mines and disposable troops. If we can Spotlight an attacker then we can use Guided in our turn to punish their attack run. If an attacker closes into our DZ we hope to protect wide areas with the 16" bubble provided by a Jammer Ghazi.
    • On the first turn we can quickly start stripping orders or removing key pieces with the Fiday. For example, quickly taking out a Guided Missile REM can remove a lot of power from opposing hacking networks. Alternatively you can try to gun down Kuang Shi or other cheap troops just to remove orders.
    • We can control the tempo of the game by forcing the opponent to answer our Fiday (or risk significant losses). This often takes our opponent multiple orders, and delays any attacks towards your Deployment Zone.
    • We attack the midfield with extremely deadly but expendable assets. A Su Jian or Anathematic in the midfield is going to be in a lot of trouble if Zuleyka is nearby. A quick toss of Smoke, followed by closing into CC will see them efficiently dispatched.
    • We efficiently move into and clear the midfield with the Mukhtar Red Fury + Rafiq combo. Both troops duo with each other and move 6" on the first move. The Mukhtar has MSV so it's great for killing skirmishers, and the Rafiq provides Repeater defence once the turn is over.
    Conclusion

    That's all I have for this year. I hope it's been helpful! Now I want to see your thoughts below!
     
  2. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    Very high-effort post!
     
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  3. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Thank for your thoughts. Those list meta lists look absolutely terrifying!

    On the duo list, I would add two that partner well with others:
    • Lasiq: The lasiq FO is a good inexpensive specialist that partners well with shooter like the Asawira Spitfire and can bring some wonderful viral into the midfield. The Marksman profile is a good shooter that pairs well with a Namurr as they both have climbing plus.
    • Druze Killer Hacker. This also pairs well with an Asawira as toting a killer hacker specialist to protect from hacking. Veteran allows it to ignore jammers and oblivion and you can bring launch a pitcher as you move up. The Damage 13 Viral Pistol can also help in a pinch.
    I agree that Haqqislam is in a good place as we have a wide range of tools. I am not surprised about the Hunzacut as she has been a star for me since N3. Our Irregulars are top notch and having gained better shooting in N4, we have so much potential. I look forward, hopefully, in 2023 getting so many of the new models for some of the favorite profiles.
     
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  4. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Good analysis: good look at the lay of the land, graspable examples, useful insights, and then actionable tips.

    As a non-Haqq-player (but frequent Haqq opponent) I found it really interesting.

    Thanks for putting the effort into this.
     
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  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Excellent writeup. It's hard to find anything to add.

    Interesting that the top Haqq lists aren't using long-range shooters. You love Knauf, and I've been partial to the Shakush HMG, but neither of them appears even once in any of the top lists. Unless I've missed any, literally the only units with a range beyond 24" are Armand (presumably there as an ARO piece - this is interesting to me as I've been wanting to try him out) and one surprise Azra'il Feuerbach.

    Possibly a function of TTS tables tending to be denser than IRL tables, but interesting nonetheless.
     
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  6. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    It's funny though because many people accuse the IGL tables of being shooting galleries haha. And yet the most common IGL Haqq lists just don't really run guns >24".

    I don't really tailor my lists for online play because I also play quite a lot IRL, so I always take something that can shoot >24" because IRL tables can sometimes be.....interesting.

    But yeah Haqq is an interesting faction, because it doesn't seem to be playing the same kind of game as a lot of other top lists.
     
  7. Rabble

    Rabble Well-Known Member

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    Although I don’t play Haqqui myself, I do agree that the meta for online and IRL do seem totally different due to table density/complexity… and that even IRL meta is absolutely different between USA and EU for example as most EU tables in tournaments are classified as “Quite Open” at best. That, by the way, explain why the SWC cost of any gun that have a positive range pass the 32 inches it is so high.
     
  8. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    I think this is somewhat of a myth. It's a bit true, but a bit false as well. TTS tables can absolutely be more dense due to the terrain being free. So some tables are very filled up. However, I've really, really pushed for the most recent TTS maps to be significantly more open - to better mirror the IRL experience. Also because I think PanO should be able to play the game :stuck_out_tongue:
     
  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    In some ways it seems most similar to the Kosmoflot list:

    2 bears -> 2 Nazarovs
    UKR AP Spitfire -> Asawira AP Spitfire
    Uxia -> Fiday
    Volkolak -> Armand (?)

    Nothing like the big hitters lists (SP, CA, Yu Jing) for sure.
     
  10. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Great write up.

    Since you seem to have a discerning eye, when it comes to power level, where do you see Haqq and it’s sectorials if was tiered in a five tier bracket.
     
  11. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    I personally see Haqq as the lowest of the major threats in N4. And similar for HB. That would put them at the bottom of tier 1, or (more likely) the top of tier 2. I don't think theyre as good as nomads, combined, or ariadna, but they're almost there. My subjective opinion is that Haqq and HB are both tier 2 // top 10 factions. They're not literally the best, but they're among the best.

    My opinion is that RTF is fine. I'd place them in the middle or upper middle. Good solid sectorial but has some major weaknesses (particularly defensively). There's really nothing too wrong with RTF. Great troops and a fun sectorial. They're just not like completely ridiculous like the top lists.

    And finally, I would, subjectively, put QK at the very bottom tier. I think the sectorial has only 1 or 2 good builds. The vast majority of its troops are mediocre on a standalone basis. The sectorial isn't particularly special aside from the Azra'il. And it has some really profound weaknesses. On a personal level I'm not really sure what QK actually does that's interesting besides Azra'il. And I don't think the Azra'il saves it.
     
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  12. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    @HeadChime

    I agree. It’s hard to add any additional commentary on the subject as you nailed my thoughts.

    I’m curious as to what would need to change to push Haqq and HB higher.

    One thing I noticed is that other factions that are in the higher end of the spectrum seem to bring more for less. For example, I can field a 15 regular order CJC list with a Brigada core, premier hacker plus network support, robust flashpulse and panzerfaust ARO line up without even trying. I’m not saying that list is top dog, I’m just saying it felt too easy to build a above average list.
     
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