Using smoke to protect against blast damage

I think per the rules as they stand, @Mahtamori has explained it correctly. I hope that is not the intention, however, and I think it's unintuitive when placed in the context how smoke works (which others have mentioned).

 

But LOF isn't required between the attacker and the blast focus, and the main target is only affected by the attack because they're in LOF of the blast focus and inside the template.

If the weren't in LOF of the blast focus and inside the template then they wouldn't be hit (which is why Shotguns hit the front edge, not the back, to make this unambiguous).

 

I don't agree, there is a clear distinction between the requirements of directing an attack against the Initial Valid Target and the requirements of an Attack to affect secondary targets, for want of a better word.

In order to place the template the attack needs lof to the initial. In order to hit the secondaries it needs lof to the secondaries from the Blast Focus. Two sets of lof requirements, distinct. However, both are necessary for the Attack to effect their respective targets and therefore smoke can disrupt them in each case.

 

You're soo close.

In order to place the template you need LOF to the main target.

In order to hit a trooper it needs to be within the template with LOF to the Blast Focus.

"The user of one of these weapons must declare a main valid target, and that target is used as a reference to place the Template.

Place the Template down when you declare the Attack to determine who is affected by that Attack, as that might influence the possible second Short Skill and AROs."

And

"As the diagram shows, the narrow end of the Template (Blast Focus) must be in contact with the edge that is closest to the attacker, so that the main target is unequivocally affected by the Template.

All other troopers affected by the Template suffer the Attack as well."

The main target is only affected by the attack because they're affected by the template.

 

I will point out at this stage that both my Internet provider and my electricity provider are fucking with me, and their offices are closed so I can't call them and argue about it, and therefore you lot will have to suffice :p

Well then the initial target has two lof requirements, albeit ones that are almost certainly going to be functionally identical and it wouldn't be the case that one was fulfilled and the other not. In that case disruption of either would work.

 

But I'd also point out that this doesn't change the situation of anyone who isn't the initial valid target, who is being potentially affected by an Attack that requires LoF from the Blast Focus to them under the template and also requires a roll, ergo they can use smoke to avoid it.

 

Why is this true for the main target but not for any other trooper affected by the attack?

 

Assuming you meant 'can't', why not?

 

I didn't mean can't. My point is the secondary targets can use smoke.

 

Interesting, @Solar ... so you're arguing that a smoke grenade can block the blast by obscuring the model throwing it from the blast focus?

While the rules could do with heavy revision in this regard, it is quite clear that total cover is the only way that a template is not going to hit something. Therefore, a smoke thrower would not be able to avoid the attack by simply blocking the LoF from the blast focus... this is why I was arguing the opposite before I realized what the OP was actually asking.

 

That is exactly what I'm saying. Obscuring the model prevents lof from being drawn as per the requirements of the Attack and therefore it would fail. Therefore, it is a Special Dodge and a ftf.

 

Wow... That I did not see coming.

Would you mind answering why disrupting either LOF (IE just the LOF between attacker and main target) wouldn't be sufficient though?

 

Except that templates ignore visibility zones when drawing LoF... so smoke does not, in fact, "block" the LoF to the blast focus.

 

That's a sort of chaining of LoF, that while possibly how they want it played, isn't really supported by the rules we have.

 

You could argue that there are two LoF requirements, to the initial and to the secondary, but smoke explicitly says it cannot be used to obscure LoF to another trooper. So basically the secondary cannot obscure lof to the initial, only themselves, and since the first lof is not to them, can't stop that. Can stop the second.

The initial can prevent lof being drawn to itself and therefore prevent it that way, but cannot obscure lof to anyone else. Because the ARO and ftf has been set, I don't then believe it could prevent any of the secondaries from getting hit, however, I've not really run through that in my head.

 

Where does it say that in respect of Impact Templates? Honesty question because it's pretty key. It says "scenery" can block lof, which includes zero vis zones (which are scenery effects)

 

It doesn't say it can't obscure them. Only that the thrower is the only one to be protected by the Special Dodge rule. That isn't the same thing.


Q: Can a miniature throw a Smoke Grenade to protect another figure from an attack?
A: No. In a similar way to a Dodge, the Special Dodge provided by throwing a Smoke Grenade can only protect the throwing trooper.

 

If you want to interpret it like that then sure, but that means that effectively everyone can protect themselves by throwing smoke on themselves or on the initial target if they're the secondary target(s).

Great for Myrmidon links!

 

Damn I don't think I've seen the same thing said so many times.

The point of contention is - does blocking LoF from the Attacker to the k-9 meet the smoke special dodge clause or is lof for models affected by an impact template derived from the "blast focus".