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Using smoke to protect against blast damage

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    The part underlined is incorrect as I see it. The attack that required LoF was the on from the ML and K-9. In order for the DD to "smoke dodge", that LoF needs to be blocked (again, this is the point of contention, but this is my understanding from the text of the rules). If the DD throws smoke to simply block LoF from himself to the ML, then it's a normal roll. With your example dice rolls, the smoke gets laid and the DD makes one save (total immunity).
     
  2. Zhukov2

    Zhukov2 Member
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    It's because he is caught in the template makes it a ftf roll.

    Responding to a Template Weapon Roll
    Against an Attack with a Template Weapon that required a Roll to hit—whether it was an Impact Template Weapon or an Intuitive Attack—, each affected enemy may make a separate Face to Face Roll against the attacker.
     
  3. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Right, but you need to still use a skill that allows you to FtF. If you reset in a blast template, that won't be a FtF...
     
    #243 Sabin76, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  4. Zhukov2

    Zhukov2 Member
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    Right, but you are doing a ftf with a ballistic skill, ie throwing smoke
     
  5. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Except you cannot use smoke to have a face to face except against something that need LoF

    LoF is defined as the line between a trooper and his target (here the DD), see http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF)

    In the interaction between DD and shooter, no LoF is needed for the DD to be hit so throwing a smoke don't allow Face to Face, it's a normal roll.

    Saying the LoF between the K9 and the shooter is the one that count make sense from a logical point of view but it goes against the definition of LoF in the whole rulebook
     
  6. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Here we go again :Rolls Eyes:
     
  7. Zhukov2

    Zhukov2 Member
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    I don't know if you are joking, trolling, or being serious
     
  8. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I mean I called it on page 2.
     
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  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I still disagree it's ambiguous. "Their LOF" can only plausibly be referring to "the enemy's attack's LOF" and once you accept that the logic follows.

    But the notion that attacks have a LOF that we concern ourself with is not explicit, is unclear and is uniquely important in this context.
     
  11. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Am I supposed to accept the meaning of LoF being rewritten just because half a dozen peoples (who are not CB or CB officials) said so ?

    Let's resume the heart of our disagreement : two options : In case "Trooper A is shooting in ARO a DD and a K9 with his template. DD has smoke grenade and want to know if he can smoke dodge"
    - LoF is defined per interaction : We use LoF between A and k9 for k9 ARO and for LoF between A and DD for DD ARO (which end in no smoke dodge possible for the poor DD)
    - LoF is defined per attack : We use at LoF between A and k9 for both k9 and DD ARO (which end in the DD to smoke dodge by sending a smoke grenade between the K9 and the shooter)

    If we agree this is what we disagree on, let's call @HellLois and have a rulling
     
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  12. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that this is what we disagree on.
     
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  13. Zhukov2

    Zhukov2 Member
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    If at any time in the order, both the DD and K-9 had LOF to the trooper with the template weapon the DD will have an opportunity to do a ftf roll against the trooper with the template weapon. The K-9 just sucks it. (On DD active turn) this is because throwing a grenade is a ballistic attack as long as it will block the LoF to the trooper who is doing the ARO.

    In ARO, if the DD and K-9 have LOF to the active trooper with the template weapon, and the DD is going to use his smoke grenade to place it where it will block LOF to the active trooper, then it will be a tft roll because both are ballistic attacks. and again, the K-9 sucks it.

    If the K-9 has LoF and the DD doesn't but the DD is in the impact area, then it can dodge at a -3 because of being it out of LoF by a template weapon. This time, the K-9 gets to dodge at its phys stat because the DD is dodging as well.
     
  14. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    My 2p. I actually think that the whole 'FtF against Impact Templates' and 'Smoke and Special Dodge' rule blocks need to be rewritten as hardly the first time they create ambiguous situations that generate long threads. Reasons:
    1. New players (that I demo the game to, at least) get VERY confused by the fact that when one enemy dude shoots your 4 dudes, some of them can save themselves from the shrapnel blast by shooting back at the firer, while some might still get hit. This is highly unintuitive, and I think, might be the root cause of this thread's appearance.
    2. For some reason, throwing a Smoke Grenade that blocks LoF to the original target of the attack using an Impact Template saves the Smoke thrower, but does not save the original target. This, again, is highly unintuitive. I won't join either of the sides and would just like the Smoke either save everyone or no one.

    I think the fact that almost every 'Smoke and Special Dodge' interaction creates rules related questions should be enough for CB to understand that it's a poorly written rule that needs utmost attention and quite possibly, an errata.