An interesting question got asked on Polish Infinity fb page, and I haven't seen it here: If a model lies prone on a roof, but isn't touching that roof's edge, it's mathematically impossible for units below to see a 3x3 mm square. They can only see and shoot back, when model above opens fire - thanks to . Is this how it's supposed to work?
LoF is reciprocal If one model can see a 3x3 square on the other they both get LoF. So if the prone model can see a 3x3 point on an enemy, that enemy can see them. This comes under this part of the LoF rules Mutual Awareness In Infinity, Line of Fire always assumes reciprocity, following the rule of thumb "if I can see you, you can see me". This means that as long as any troop can draw LoF to its target, the target can draw LoF to its attacker as well (assuming, of course, that the attacker is within the target's front 180˚ arc).
As long as a 3x3mm square of the model below is visible to a point on the elevated prone model's base, reciprocal LoF kicks in.
I truly don't understand where people originally got the idea that LoF is somehow dependent on taking an action and does not just exist or not. It's been kicking around for years without any rules support.
Wait, maybe I misunderstood the question. Is the OP asking whether there needs to be an Attack made for Mutual Awareness to kick in? The answer to that is no. Does Mutual Awareness allow you to make an Attack, even if you can't see a full 3x3 area of the target? Yes, as long as they can see a 3x3 of you.
So I dont have LoF, because I cant see 3x3mm of Your silouette, but you can see 3x3 of my silouette, so by mutual awarness I got LoF?:D Right? Btw, if so, why shooting at model back from front arc is a thing without chance to shoot back?
Most of the time it's not a problem, because if I moved a model so far that opponent can catch a 3x3 sq, than my model most like sees as much as well. It's the "prone on the rooftop" situation that throws it out a bit, but your answers do clear this out. To clarify it further: if the unit below is active and can't see the elevated model's 3x3, but the elevated unit can see the 3x3 of the unit's below, then the Mutual Awareness still kicks in? edit: also, I see the discussion on fb devolved into the intent debate. I'm so happy I'm largely out of it -_-
Yes To put it another way, it is not possible for A to have LoF to B, without B also having LoF to A (except for facings).
Btw, shouldnt this negate ruling about super jump in models front arc and shooting on its back without aro?
no, the idea is that the non-jumping model doesn't have anyway to draw a line from it's front half to the jumping model
Mutual Awareness In Infinity, Line of Fire always assumes reciprocity, following the rule of thumb "if I can see you, you can see me". This means that as long as any troop can draw LoF to its target, the target can draw LoF to its attacker as well (assuming, of course, that the attacker is within the target's front 180˚ arc). So being in front doesnt mean being in fron arc in this situation? Dunno, IMO current interpretation is kind of against Mutual Awarness basic rule... and brings always bad taste. But hey! I am not the one who writes FAQs;)
It's even more confusing, when you consider this situation: the target has it's back to the wall, super-jumping unit can draw LoF to target's front, but remains out of his front arc. What then? While I understand the FAQ answer's logic, I still think it should be different, if only for the sake of simplicity.
Are your bases 2.5mm thick instead of 3mm thick? I'm trying to figure out how you get "mathematically impossible".
He meant, if the base is not touching the edge of the roof, then any model *below* cannot see 3x3mm of the base because the roof edge will cast a shadow on the base edge which is further away that the roof edge. Of course, a model that is at same height or higher will see a 3x3 square as the roof edge will not be casting a shadow. Replace his "not touching that roof's edge" with a more firm "is 4" away from the roof edge" and then you tell me how do you think it is mathematically possible for a model on the ground to see a 3x3 square.
