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Tunguska Lists for my first ITS Event

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by cybergh0st, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Hi Guys! In January I am going to participate in a local ITS event that is going to be my first time. There are going to be following missions - Countermeasures, Unmasking and Firefight.
    I would very appreciate your advice if my 2 lists are good or are total garbage.
    Thank you in advance.

    Holloween──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10 HOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36) HOLLOW MEN Missile Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35) HOLLOW MEN (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) HOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18) PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 11) PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 11) PUPPETBOT (Marksmanship L1) AP Marksman Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) HECKLER Combi Rifle, Jammer, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    Holloween v.3──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1 HOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36) HOLLOW MEN Missile Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35) HOLLOW MEN Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) HOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18) INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ZONDNAUT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 32) [​IMG] ZONDMATE Chain Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (5)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 HECKLER Combi Rifle, Jammer, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
  2. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    One of the more difficult aspects of playing Tunguska is picking the units that can play multiple scenarios in the same list. In your case, I think you lucked out with the scenarios for this event; Countermeasures and Unmasking both call for a similar set of units. Firefight can be it's own list as fast specialists are a bit of a liability there and the goals are more killy.

    Since both of your lists have a Hollow core, I will stick with that in my recommendations.

    Countermeasures and Unmasking both need specialists, and fast specialists can help a lot. TJC's two best specialists for Countermeasures IMO are the Zondnautica AHD and the Hollowman AHD simply for the sheer amount of classifieds they can get and for their speed/mobility. If I play around with your first list, I get something like this which I feel plays both missions pretty well. Ideally I'd make the Zond AHD the DT in countermeasures, and a hollow man in Countermeasures.

    Holloween
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    HOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)
    HOLLOW MEN Missile Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35)
    HOLLOW MEN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)
    HOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
    PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    PUPPETBOT (Marksmanship L1) AP Marksman Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    ZONDNAUT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    [​IMG] ZONDMATE Chain Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (5)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    For your second list, I would probably just reduce the number of specialists and put in a few more units that are more survivable. Raoul is excellent in firefight because of the drop in bonus, but you need to have units that can guard your own back line because of the same bonus for Air Drop troops. This is an example of tweaks made to your list to better deal with Firefight dynamics, it still has too many specailists, but part of that is just a by product of running a Hollow core.

    If you don't like Raoul, a Spektr is good in this one too because there is no exclusion zone and there are panoplies they can get easily.

    Holloween v.3
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    HOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)
    HOLLOW MEN Missile Launcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35)
    HOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
    HOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
    INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PUPPET MASTERS (Minelayer) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    HECKLER Combi Rifle, Jammer, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Just some ideas for you to mull over before your event. I'd just play test as much as you can before the event and get a feel for everything. Don't be a afraid to change up your lists based on what you discover about them and the threats you are likely to face.

    If you end up running two Interventors, I highly recommend making one of them the KHD profile it's super solid for the cost. If you're just trying to hide your Lt, take a single Securitate combi as it's a lot cheaper. In your lists you are getting diminishing returns with two HD+.
     
    #2 jfunkd, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  3. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Wow, thank you very much for so detailed and throughout advise.
    Yes, I have included 2 Interventors with HD+ to hide the Lt. and to be able to use both hackers to their full potential. IMHO, having 1 hacker Lt. is super scary, especially against Aleph.
     
  4. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Still not clear on why to take so many hackers but ommit Pandas, as a result loosing board control.
    And how to protect hscker Lt.?
     
  5. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I don't think board control through hacking is a thing the way you're imagining. If a killer hacker wants to kick your ass, he can just walk up and do it - the odds are about 70/30 and it's just a roll of the dice. I'd say of all the hackers in Infinity only the Asura and Haidao can do what you're thinking.

    That said, the Interventor is a good LT and you have a bunch of things going for you:
    • She's cheap and well-optimized to live under some stairs like Harry Potter
    • She has Cybermask, which keeps her safe from killer hackers and AD dudes
    • Securitate have Veteran, which takes all the sting out of Loss of Lieutenant
     
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  6. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Got it. I am very new to Infinity - playing just 6 months, this is why I ask so stupid questions.
    Looks like, I am overrating Interventor herself and hackers in general. My intention was to use Interventors to their full potential, but seems it is not the case in Tunguska.
     
  7. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    You also have access to a Rem that is optimised for CQB and perimeter defense to act as a bodyguard (lunokhod) and a dirt cheap minelayer you're more than likely taking anyway to further protect them (puppet master).
     
  8. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    Tunguska has a lot of options to extend hacking range, and IMO Interventor Fast Pandas are pretty low on my list of those options. I usually only take one on the Lt if I have two extra points that I cannot spend anywhere else. There was only one game (and i play a lot of games) where I felt I could have deployed it effectively and maybe given my Interventor a chance to ARO vs Achilles Spitfire, but even then I would have had to predict where he would be shooting my Lt from and he probably just would have avoided that attack vector.

    Fast Pandas aren't bad, but they have a very narrow niche where they are more effective than the other options TJC has to extend hacking. That is they don't require a roll, cannot be ARO'd on the way to their deployment. They are almost better being used aggressively into enemy units, which isn't really where you want your Interventor Lt to be.

    Other options are:

    1. Mary and the Hollow Man Multirifle have pitchers. These are much easier to deploy at longer ranges and reliable from a Hollow Man core.
    2. The Jammer Heckler has a fast Panda that creates the potential for multiple AROs that do not require LoF in the same Area and he gets Forward deployment to put it into a more aggressive position than the Interventor is usually capable of.
    3. Pretty much all of our REMs deploy with a Repeater in the DZ, and their speed allows for rapid and precise placement up field with potentially more distance and definitely greater coverage area than the Panda due to the base size + ZoC.

    Board control through repeater placement is a bit dicey too. Like @helsbecter said, a KHD unit can use your repeaters to target any of your hackers, and while Tunguska is better suited to respond and survive than most; the active turn unit usually has weight of dice behind the attack and often has stealth and surprise attack to pick the fight with better odds. Also, a lot of things you'd like to hack in ARO have stealth so it can be much more difficult to control the board with repeaters than you think, unless you spring for a hacker in your core giving him SSL2.

    That said, there are plenty of good uses for repeaters and Interventors, and I feel one of the most overlooked is throwing a White Noise ARO on an unsuspecting Visor unit as it moves through an area you can hack.

    Ultimately the Fast Panda needs to be deployed and that takes an activation. If I'm only going to spend the Lt order on my Interventor in a turn, it's usually going to be to Cybermask said Interventor. This is also probably the best way to protect a Ineterventor Lt if you start 1st turn active. If you are starting reactive, put the Interventor somewhere inaccessible or make it so that your opponent has to spend a lot of orders to make the assassination run.

    Interventors are an amazing unit really. They are hyper specialized for their cost and there is every reason to play them. Unfortunately against a good opponent with the right faction, repeaters can offer less protection and add high risk for them.
     
    #8 jfunkd, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    There's also the Meteor if you wanted to get cute and bring a repeater on to the other side of the table.
     
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  10. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Thank you guys, much appreciated! Exchanged Transductor and 1 Heckler for Lunikhod, and tested the list against Yu Jing in Firefight. Played very well. I have noticed that having to go 1st is very favored by Tunguska.
     
  11. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    Starting reactive is a challenge for Tunguska, especially when you are learning them. Hecklers help, so does the Lunokod, probably the Tsyklon (but I haven't played it yet), Spektrs, Puppetactica, and I've also used Perseus as an effective speed bump in some matches.

    There are plenty of scenarios where it's a good choice to start reactive to get the last turn, even with TJC. Don't get too reliant on going first and Alpha striking if you can help it. Choose to go second when it makes sense in pick up games and learn how to defend your key units so that when it comes up in ITS, you have an idea of how to deploy and which AROs to choose to stall out your opponents.
     
  12. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Lucky or not, but I always losing my initiative roll and opponent choses to keep deployment, so I am forced to go first.
    But I agree, in Quadrant Control it could be better to go 2nd.
     
  13. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    I think that my main problem is - I am too slow in making decisions. And I am afraid that I won't be able to stick to 2 hour time frame for a mission.
     
  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Thats something that will improve over time. as you get used to how the faction and your armies play, remember their stats, as well as your go to answers for things.
     
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  15. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
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    Decide on the essentials of your list now and practice it as much as you can. Practice and plan your deployment the most. Don’t radically change your lists before the event. Also don’t judge your lists too harshly if it doesn’t perform, the experience matters at this point.
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    This. Also remember that even the most optimal list will still get smashed by a better opponent and poor dice, it's one of the great things about Infinity.
     
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  17. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Yes, I have started creating kind of playbooks and deployment plan for each mission. I plan to include main strategies in those.
     
  18. cybergh0st

    cybergh0st New Member

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    Agree, sometimes you just have to face the reality when opponent is way more experienced or just crits you all the time.
     
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