Already reading it since ... well, from its beggining. Not really sure what to say about it ... The Hulang is not working properly, that's true. And I'm not into the fluff as @Janzerker does, so I see troopers and how they work on the table. I gave the Hulang some tries time ago but no anymore. It's not relyable. All the suggestions made seem good to "fix" this unit. I'd rather go for the Limited Camo option. I don't see it in a Fireteam, though. Have you tried in Dúo with the new Lei Gong? I know that 44 points should do well on their own, but this army is about combinations and synergies between units.
<facepalm> Then I'm amazed how this unit made the cut with current profile. Hearing this just reinforces the feeling that IA was rushed instead of properly tested, which gives reasons to YJ players to feel upset.
No, don't get me wrong. IA wasn't rushed (and I still think is a good army, competitive, but yet difficult to play) but sometimes things are not as simple as they seem. As a tester you only have your point of view and your partner's, and final profiles don't need to follow a strict "cost-efficiency" system. IA is a really good army, but I have to agree that the Hulang is not what I expected and may need a revision.
IA is an okay army. "Really good" is a long shot. I think with a few more tweaks to help them complete objectives easier would make them "Really good". Hulang does need a revision.
So, playing TAGs or achilles on your zone should be most profitable. an AHD is a basic card to deal with those kind of threats
Makes me really miss the N2 rule that all hacking devices included a repeater, so that all hackers had the same Hacking Area. You want to attack my AHD? That's why his buddy the KHD is standing overwatch.
So, Most of us are on the same page about the hulang Aside from the FD2 and mimetism, He almost has no means to approach the enemy and squeeze it's CC and short range signature moves Too exposed on mid-table Too expensive relatively bad at dodging not too much durable for it's cost lack of security network or utility inside IA And regarding things that could help him are Frenzy/impetuous For both cost reduction and Extra move Movement 6-2 Some sort of hidden state (limited camo, camo, decoy, holproyector+wildcard...) Smoke dodge, Hyperdinamics or just higher PH (this last one is in league with the Grenades but not with a monofilament) Add more durability (make him a proper HI with 2 wounds) Forget about that short-range focus and give him a mid-range weapon like a marksman rifle or a redfury, were the mimetism shines more Side-grade Monofilament to Explosive CC weapon (cheaper, makes the D-charges less unnecessary and makes the PH attribute more interesting/affordable) Making him MI and taking out the FD2 was also putted over the table indirectly as a cheapen-out method I find interesting to substitute the EMnades with a zapper if the PH doesn't improve. Or giving them a "active sniffer" (like the repeater, not deployable) providing some utility on midfield, a bonuss to the EMnades and some push to the face to face in a rangeband everyone has good range mods. So, there are plenty of possibilities over the table. The questions are... If CB decides to take the step... Wich path should they take? which ones benefit more the sectorial? which ones fit more the fluff? wich ones are cleaner/fairer to implement?
Honestly, the way things are developing, at this point I should say they should just make Hulang, Haidao, Zhencha and Liu Xing into 4-4 Medium Infantry and re-bake the points. I think both IA and the game would benefit from this, as to my estimates the Haidao would get a point more expensive while the others should get cheaper (though I'm not certain about Zhencha, it doesn't seem to be paying HI-premium on Infiltration the way Hulang does on FD2) and it would return to a point where heavy infantry communicates both an advantage and a disadvantage. This might be sufficient and particularly the Hulang should get noticeably cheaper in the process. Still doesn't really fix that the sectorial is lacking severely in military equipment, but it does mean you can't guard all approaches using a couple of AHDs, KHDs and a Pitcher.
If there’s any IA unit that ought to have frenzy, it’s the hulang. His helmet is a freaking skull for crying out loud.
We all agree that invincible lacks a midtable safety network. that lack is due to the following factors: Medium-High average cost of our troops, that is directly related to: small or null presence of troops on midtable lack of minelayers or decoys on midtable short ranges of our skirmishers (almos only SMGs and BSs) In my opinion, we need some kind of safety network. Ideally the solution would be some kind of orderless netrods that esentially perform as ARO turrets wasting enemy orders on first turn. It would have a hardcore militar approach and will be an excuse for using EVO and Liuxings But if there is the need of using a hulang on that role, my first solution approach is limited camo+decoy (even if it's IA exclusive). It'll benefit the Sectorial wasting some enemy orders, providing first turn safety and a safe vector of approach for those CC and short range skills. If we somehow want to step back from that role, and we want an aggressive and obvious piece, Id go for a Hiperdinamics, PH14 frenzy or impetuous trooper. But the network role should be taken by other troop like a decoy+minelayer zencha. There is also a 3rd option, the utility. providing Smoke to the hulang would improve it's survival and vector of aproach, but also providing a way of making smoke combos (even with PH12) there exists also one train of thought that what IA needs is a Warband and forget about changing the hulang. That a pesky armor-less suicidal mongrel with smoke could add more than any other solution... but of course I don´'t like IA to become a light weight sectorial.
I think mid-table safety net is a flaw and probably one of the flaws of the sectorial I would least like to fix. Deployment Zone safety net is a different matter - midtable can be sorted by counter-attacks, but if your key pieces have been destroyed by a Rambo then no can do. It might seem like midtable aand DZ nets are sort of the same,but the important difference is that DZ nets don't cover objectives and should be both cheaper and more widely available. P.s. Sectorials in particular should have flaws built in. Just not, you know, almost all of them like IA has.
Deployment Zone safety in IA is not that bad... But is reaaaally expensive SWC wise. The Haidao sniper is a vital piece for this, shooting down any lane he gets sight of. Models that can go under his radar pose a problem, like Camo markers in the midtable or models with Airborne Deployment/Impersonation. That problem can be solved by minelayers. Unfortunately, the only ones we get are Daoyings MSR. That means we have to spend 1.5 SWC for a mine. Zhenchas are good as attack/specialist pieces but they suck at defending. Giving them minelayer would be amazing for IA, because you solve" the midfield defense problem. I would even take a Daoying BSG + Minelayer profile.
Not to tangent too much, but there's a discussion on this point on WGC right now. My TLDR is that anyone who thinks AHDs suck hasn't played against the right Nomad or CA players yet. AHDs are nasty if you're good with hacking, and can put high-cost troops into difficult positions in both active and ARO, making your shooting attacks way safer/more effective for a minimal number of extra orders. The AHD needs support from other hackers to stay alive, and IMO is better through a repeater rather than up close and nas-tay unless the trooper also has the tools to finish off those IMMed units and camo to be hard to kill with a KHD later. https://www.facebook.com/groups/WGC...5¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif
I'd have loved to see Minelayer on Daoying Boarding Shotgun (the non-Hacker version) for SWC-free DZ mines similar to Yuriko. However, I do like to note that leaving your Haidao sniper peeking up too far means he'll get hosed by a HMG and since he doesn't have any Mimetism or similar he will likely die to this unless it's a Keisotsu who forgot how to Core that's shooting. This means a Haidao's firelane will be fairly slim against most opponents, not least because I find any SWC model in excess of 35 points will hold far too high tactical value, and simply leaving it out like a Ghulam Sniper is out of the question. I just don't find the midfield to be much of a problem for IA, with the key exception being Hulang who's got problems with just about everything that enters the midfield owing to short range weapons, high cost, being a high priority target, lacking Climb+/SJump, lacking Killer Hacker Device* and lacking Marker state. Come the active turn and IA shouldn't have any problems clearing the midfield of any threat except repeaters and Jammers, because for some odd reason IA didn't get competent grenade launchers. * This is, btw, probably another way to patch Hulang, and that is to upgrade Specialist Operative to Killer Hacking Device since that means the Hulang will on their own discourage the use of the current primary hard-counter to their use - pitchers and an AHD.
