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Trying to make Hulahg great))

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by epsilon, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    Since I've seen his render i decided to try him again.
    I still think that his a little bit overpriced but i don't like to buy miniatures and keep them on shelf.
    First of all i trief to make a two griup list, but mowang is a way better.
    So I've started to develop a single group list, after some testing I've created this one
    Хуланг──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10 DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44) ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) ZHANSHI (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Doctor, Engineer, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 5 SWC | 299 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    The main idea is here:
    Our link provides control function and moves forward only as a second wave.
    While Hulahg takes the function of midfield skirmisher and zhencha is a button pusher.
    I've already used this list at acquisition, looting & sabotaging. Both times it worked well. The main idea about Hulahg is to hunt down weak targets, avoiding good shooters, in case it's not possible try make missions.
    That's why I'd not take this list for quadrant control or highly classified.
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think the main problem with this is the Zencha does the same job but is better at it for considerably less points. For IA, anyway. Vanilla is a different thing all together.
     
  3. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    Zhencha is strictly about doing missions, every time i try to use him as an attack unit he sucks(
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Against what you're classifying as weak targets? I'm not sure how you're managing to screw that up. The Zencha is strictly the better gunfighter having surprise shot, and also has access to mines. The marker state also gives it the ability to move past units and shoot them from behind.
     
  5. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Well that point of view seems a personal opinion rather than actual intel

    In my opinion is no as bad as people say.
    In one game I managed to take out a broken wildcat linkteam, avicena, a bandit and inmobilizing a geko with EM grenades. So, he can surely do some shit when some factors gather all together. Mainly interior or dense battlegrounds, and/or missions that push your enemy to advance in bulk outside it's deployment (for example: biotechvore, frontline,...)

    The most frecuent problem you find with it is the fact that is a vulnerable target. Extremely short BS ranges, not so high PH and lack of ways to hide/advance on open tables. zencha have similar problems, but the marker state, the wider deployment zone and being "cheaper", makes up for it. At least partially


    Hulang problems are simply that right now, incincible army is not a good place for his current profile... Or viceversa, it's profile doesn't work well enough inside invincible
     
    #5 Mc_Clane, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    To sum it up: Hulang is better than the Zhencha in any given situation, but the Zhencha will get to that situation whereas the Hulang will not.
     
    csjarrat, Triumph and Section9 like this.
  7. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Zhencha can also throw down mines, which allow him to be a pretty vicious combatant with the right setup.
     
  8. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    As it was said above, mainly it was my personal bad experience about attacking with zhencha, quite often i lack extra range at his guns.
    That's why imho hulang is better attacker than zhencha.
    But I'm not persuading anyone)
     
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    I cannot figure out how to get the Hulang into combat. Lack of marker state is killing him.

    I can figure out how to get a Zhencha into combat, he practically deploys where I want him to start shooting AND he starts in a marker state. The downside is that everything else there in the midfield can kill a Zhencha just as easily as it can kill a Spektr or Prowler.



    I'm confused. The Zhencha has an extra 4" deployment space, should be plenty to get into prime SMG range of anything you want to delete from the midfield. Are you only running the Combi+LFT Hulang?
     
  10. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    Well, from here very often fuck up happens.
    Since zhencha is known to every player as our main midfield spec, almost every time it's conter deployed by various options: zulu jammer, chaseurs, to camo etc. It's true that such assets make problems for hulang too, BUT combi rifle gives advantage while shooting at targets with smg, lite flamethrowers etc.

    Once again, it's just my personal opinion.
    My point is that hulang is a better attacker with some mission potential than zhencha and vice-versa. I'd attack with zhencha only if odds are on my side.
     
  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    If you're attacking anything when the odds aren't on your side, you're playing Infinity wrong.
     
    Barrogh, Section9 and IAGO242 like this.
  12. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Do you roll for infiltration or what?
    All Zhencha profiles have a 8" positive rangeband
     
  13. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    DEP goes up to 16" for a bit of a hail Mary. But between camo state and climbing+, a Zhencha shouldn't have much trouble getting to where he needs to do what he wants. If you want to push a hard offensive straight from the centre line, you should be doing that with a Daofei. Let the Zhencha go after the objectives and low hanging fruit.
     
  14. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    DEP is tricky to use in active now due to LOS front half visibility FAQ (no more normal roll TAG ass-hunting), and, you know, 1 dice, but it can be a pretty nice one shot kill in ARO.
    Still active use of Zhencha as an assault unit is pretty order intensive unless opponent moves around carelessly and leaves skirmishers in the open. It is not a 8pt libertos that you can just yeet into any enemy and clear the minefields on your way.

    Curious - did you link Hulang with Xenotech in acquisition? FD+non-marker lets him do multiscanner on his way to the enemy.
     
    barakiel likes this.
  15. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Thread is being hijacked by Zhencha. Giving my two cents upon SMGs hit on zero up to 16' - pays a lot.

    Like many Forumites say, Hulang are best when with Shaolins - that being said, to make use out of CC-oriented unit you seriously need some visual distraction. This knocks them off from IA naturally.

    Delivering them to CC, well.. does it worth it? Its often better to shoot someone to death than try a vainglory CC..
     
  16. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    I've been using the Hulang a bit and found him to be really useful for IA and practically our only option when it comes to missions like looting and sabotaging. (You can try your luck with D-charges on some of the other profiles but they whiff painfully often.)

    As for getting to places, I think local metas and opponents along with table design are major factor in determining opinion here and I've no idea what other peoples usual experiences are but I have had more problems with the zencha than the hulang because of enemy camo and mines! I hate the zencha's fragility to mines with a passion and it sucks at dealing with them. The hulang isn't any better but it at least can survive a hit from a mine in the active turn is a better aggressive piece thanks to either extra burst (from two SMGs) or the options granted by having a combi and a light flame thrower.

    The Hulang can push buttons as well and in most cases isn't any worse at doing it than the zencha either. It can also duo which I've found useful enough to bring along a shang ji with tinbot (which means you also get a tactical awareness order to move him up the table). Or you could could attach the FTO baggage bot for quick reloads on d-charges and extending your repeater coverage. I don't have an issue with him getting around the table because if I'm going first then opponents deploy in one of two ways. Either they put down a number of strong ARO pieces which the rest of IA can usually deal with thanks to a strong core fire-team or they deploy with nearly everything out of sight. In the case of the latter the hulang has little trouble getting into position where it can do what it's meant to, messing with the enemy up close and personal. In the case of the former, it's not difficult to get both a zuyong HMG and the Haidao multi-sniper into a list which gives you decent options into just about any ARO option the opponent is going to put down and the FTO son bae has become a very appreciated piece as well.

    Getting to CC is always going to be situational but the hulang at least has the option and is pretty competent once there. It's good enough with its guns that opponents have to worry about what threat the hulang is going to use. If you took the combi + light flame thrower option, then walking around a corner into base to base with a target forces a lot of foes into a questionable choice. Templates just as chain rifles or nanopulsers won't down it in one hit, shooting for a face to face roll might get them roasted or cut in half and dodging or CC is going to be dependent on what the model is. The Hulang is one of the better options we have for dealing with HI lurking around corners. (Yeah the zencha can place a mine and then force a hard choice about what to do but if the enemy is multi-wound with decent armour and in suppressive fire then they are going to just try and tank the mine.) Although if it's a full fire-team of tin-plated meatheads then those E/M grenades are a very welcome tool.
     
    Azuset, Paegis, epsilon and 1 other person like this.
  17. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    [QUOTE="fatherboxx, post: 285493
    Curious - did you link Hulang with Xenotech in acquisition? FD+non-marker lets him do multiscanner on his way to the enemy.[/QUOTE]
    Of course i did)
    He's a good candidate for this job, xeno also could be used as a anti template/blast shield, by hugging with hulang)
     
  18. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    And yeah, it is dangerous to attack some links from 8 inch range

    Cc on hulang is an option, but it's nice if you manage to catch some pricy in melee.
     
    #18 epsilon, Aug 20, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  19. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible

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    I love the idea of the Hulang and really want to make him work too. Curious, when you've got second turn, how do you deploy the Hulang? Do you make use of FD2 at all? Because I feel like it sort of just leaves him hanging out in the breeze.
     
  20. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    When I'm moving second i try not to drop fd at all, but it depends on the enemy list and deployment
     
    Paegis likes this.