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Trying ForCo

Discussion in 'Foreign Company' started by yoink101, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    I've started playing ForCo to give myself a change of pace. With only three games with them under my belt, I only have some first impressions. I’ll throw them out because it may start some conversation and hopefully I’ll get some insights from all of you to improve my game.

    The good.

    Securitate+CSU fireteams. While a little pricey for what I want, coming from PanO in any case, this core team is awesome. 2-3 CSUs with the rifle+lsg profile have made it into every list I’ve built because they are absurdly good for such a bargain price. Securitate make a solid backbone to an army with good stats and solid weapon options for a reasonable price. I typically like bringing an hmg and multi sniper (I like the versatility of range more than the ammo types of the feuerbach in most engagements and I prefer the high burst of the hmg) with a couple of vanilla guys to hide my LT. Then I might throw in the hacker. Finally, the CSUs. This is a great core team and it can do everything well. I typically don’t push it up the table because they are line troops, but two of the CSUs can form a duo to get a specialist up the table if I need it.

    Zeros are also awesome. Cheap, solid, and capable. Camouflage is probably the best ability in the game, especially when it shows up on an infiltrating ~20 point model. Mines are one of my other favorite tools. I bring a mix of the khd, ahd, FO, and minelayer, depending on what I need. I’d love ava 3, but 2 of them are great to have.

    Crocmen are amazing. Relatively inexpensive and packing a toolkit. I love the FO for bringing mines and a specialist. The x-visor stacked with TO means that he can kill just about anything you need in a firefight. The boarding shotgun profile can do some really interesting things with them visor, landing templates out fairly reliably at medium range. The sniper can be an amazing attacker. The ahd is an awesome profile capable of shutting down some of the hardest targets.

    Obviously the Kriza is a great heavy hitter. I always reach for the HMG because it’s simply a monster. I’ve heard people swear by the MK12, but the added cost just doesn’t seem worth it to me.

    Having ava 1 akalis is good. They’re dirt cheap for being a bs13 AD troop. The spitfire can be an absolute monster. The combi rifle and bsg are both capable of getting work done, but may have a very hard time cracking core fireteams.

    Double Warcore’s are a great way to get more flash pulses on the table.

    The Überfallkommando is a fantastic warband. Often, I find that placing her on the table can lure out targets for my Kriza to take down. I’ve found that spending the order to hold her back on turn one is often the right choice. Not always, but often.

    Laxmee bringing an hd+ I think is good. She’s paying some points for traits I don’t really need her to have, but she doesn’t have the coveted smg discount. Eclipse from the Chimera plus white noise are fantastic tools for maneuvering.

    The peacemaker is a phenomenal alpha strike and also synergizes well with the crocman and zeros. Fire solves most problems. Even more when it comes with a heavy shotgun.

    The bad.

    Ava 1 on all the remotes is lame. It is partially countered by the excess Warcore that is available.

    The A team seems like a waste of points to me. I would love if it felt worth it. But I doesn’t to me. There’s too much vulnerability in a bunch of 30-40 point models with only one wound. Valkyrie excluded. I really wish she had a cheapish haris or something though.

    A lack of cheap warbands isn’t the end of the world, but it would be nice to have some Morlocks or Jaguars in the mix.

    The Ugly

    ORCs are a point of contention for many. BS14 is really good. WIP12 and BTS3 are not. These can be a great candidate for holding a zone or an extra objective room because they are a lot of points that can be tough to remove. On the other hand, they are a lot of points. I can’t say that I’ve ever brought ORCs or seen them on the table and experienced that they were worth the points they cost. The exception might be a lone hmg or the same model included in an ASA or VIRD core fireteam. This is a tough pill to swallow in ForCo because for only 10 more points, you can reach for the Kriza, which outperforms the ORC on every metric.

    The end.

    Of course, there are things that I’ve skipped over, either because they’re staples (doc and engineer) or I haven’t used them yet I’m this army (Kaplan, Bill, Brawler). I’d love to hear about things I missed or things that I’m completely wrong about and why I’m wrong about them.
     
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  2. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    You know, I like ORCs. But then again, most of the time it's 3 ORCs, Avicenna and Valk for a real pain train. Or 1 ORC, Valk and Avicenna for a push team.

    However, I can't play ForCo right now. It just feels clunky. The fireteams have too many restrictions for my liking, so I'm leaving them on the shelf.

    That being said, Kriza HMG Lieutenant+CoC bolt is ace.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    It used to be a much stronger option before the changes to suppression (must pick the weapon when entering sup fire, and not stack with FA), where it would just sit in a spot and either nail something with the MK12 or SMG imposing a -6 before cover and range bands with no real way to get around it due to the 360 visor, now it's just a solid low SWC beat stick that is real hard to get the drop on.

    The thing here is that you probably are never going take more than 2 or three at a time, and only 3-4 of the profiles are worth using. The HMG, a B5 BS14 weapon is never a bad thing though it does get out shined by the kriza. The Feuerbach, another solid shooter with a great weapon and BS 14. The BSG + tinbot and MR + tinbot, helps offset the wip 12 BTS 3 issue (Which should be more than easily be covered by Zeros murder hacking the enemy hackers first).

    Unlike something like the Kriza the ORCs require a bit more support and pre-planning but can make all kinda of mess.
     
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  4. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    Part of my issue with ORCs is that I play Acon and VIRD. ORC are much stronger options in those armies. In Acon, I regularly take an ORC hmg to fit in a Regular fireteam with a Bagh Mari sniper. The ORC can be a major threat that forces my opponent to play conservatively or I can break him away to be a beat stick on his own. My issue with IRCs in ForCo is really that I’m spoiled. There isn’t a cheap fireteam to tuck him into and the Kriza outshines the ORC as a solo striker.

    I can see value in holding ground in an objective room or something like quadrant control where moving a durable, multi wound fireteam into an area where you want them to stay alive as long as possible.
     
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  5. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    ACON and VIRD by extension the mixed fire team mechanic are the main problem in that they have warped most people's perception on what is a good and valuable unit, and if it can't be put in a cheap link than it's more a question as to why would I bother than how to make it work.
    The concept of tucking an extremely effective and expensive shooter into a team with a bunch super cheap cheerleaders is cancerous to game balance, as previously in order to get the powerful bonuses on high end strikers you needed to actually pay for them, now you can get for around the cost of a duplicate of that model which kinda screws everything.

    Especially when people limit their thinking to cores are defensive tools only, the ORC team is nothing but a tool of pure aggression you trow it up the table until the HMG becomes worthless, and sit there presenting 10 wounds spread across 3 BS17 models, and two BS15s with shotguns, hiding under the protection of a pair of camo KHDs and a few mines.

    There is nothing wrong with the ORC and the ORC pain train with Valk and Avicenna is incredibly powerful and can cover a large amount of classifieds (HI, Vet, Hacker, Doctor, CC monster) and pretty much presents an immovable brick/firebase. It arguably does StarCo's Brigada pain train better.

    While the Kriza is a better solo striker the ORC is great as a secondary to either continue on when the Kriza drops to attack something that pinning the kriza from a different angle.

    Finally you don't need to go full core, BSG+TBA, Feuerbach, and Avicenna as a 3 person core is more than competant at holding down a fire lane and making an approach very obnoxious. Or take a similar concept but with Valk, Avicena and HMG as just an assault/specialist module to make a mess with (though I'd prefer the multi-rifle over the HMG personally).
     
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  6. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The A-Team aren't that good as a link.

    What I tend to find is that I wish I could take a second Haris rather than a Core and a Haris. And I wish Valkyrie could go in a Haris.
     
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  7. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    Regardless, it is a thing now, so it is the reality we play in.

    I’ve never witnessed a strategy like this work against an experienced player who brought a competitive list. Either through stacking mods with an AP weapon or simply running a warband in to CC with the HI one at a time, the team will go down. The hope becomes, “can my team outlast my opponent’s orders”. Unless it’s turn three and the team is still in tact with the opponent having a gutted order pool, those ORCs are dead.
     
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  8. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Two things:
    - First, everything dies easily in this game, but shifting a Heavy Infantry model in suppressive fire will be pretty hard even for a warband unless you're playing in an extremely cluttered table;
    - Second, Valkyrie being around does help a lot against warbands. There is no warband in this game she won't butcher, and you can have her break off the fireteam (assuming you didn't already break the team to drop them all in suppressive fire) to engage the warband and keep them from killing off your ORCS.

    These aren't perfect tactics, but there are always ways of mitigating failures or problems.
     
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  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Valkyrie is undeniably pretty awesome. She runs herself pretty effectively cos she's hard to kill, can murder pretty much anything, doesn't give a fuck what you hit her with, and can murder an entire backline easily. You need to deliver her though, which is why I don't like her link options.
     
  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    My point is you don't "need" to deliver her.

    Valk is a deterrent. Warbands fuck up HI? Well, they won't if said HI is being bodyguarded by Valk. "Engage" is one hell of an option for a model that can leap 4 inches to stab someone in the face. I've been using it a whole lot to protect my squishy shooters, and ORCs are very much not squishy.

    Being able to take a wound and fall back into cover is very useful. And even if you take 2, with Avicenna right there by their side it's just one order to get them back up, maybe 2 if you need to cautious move Avicenna to get to the Unconscious ORC.

    I agree that having Valk be able to join a Haris would be awesome, but right now I think the ORC link in ForCo is pretty good, as far as HI fireteams go.
     
  11. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    As with most things in Infinity, the big issue I see with mega links is simply evaluating what else could have been bought for the same points. I think someone can take a mixed link of super heroes and ORCs and find a way to make it work, but it is netting you greater advantages than the Securitate link, Kriza and Zeros you could have bought for the same cost?

    Similarly, is that meaty link truly durable enough to resist a broad spectrum of threats? Is Valkyrie serving as an effective deterrent when someone throws smoke with a 6-point model to block her LoF? Is ORC durability worthwhile vs a truly dominant CC threat with Mono or EXP CCW?

    These things are hard to evaluate without specifics. But I find that when I move a huge chunk of my points closer to the enemy, I'm making a move that's potentially catastrophic. One of the easiest ways to lose a game of Infinity is to put your link team in the wrong place, and the more valuable the link, the more you're potentially losing by doing so. Midfield combat and defense with a full 5-man Core requires extreme judgement calls, which can be hazardous for risk-averse players.

    As a result, I like to use Duo or Haris teams for that kind of action. You get a lot of the same benefits (movement efficiency for multiple models, +1 Burst with Haris) but you aren't committing the overwhelming bulk of your list to a dangerous table position.
     
    #11 barakiel, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  12. Guiz

    Guiz Member

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    Hi,

    I agree with all comments in the first post but I'm finding the CROC man a bit too expensive when I'm looking on dasyu or tohaa. More and more, I only take 2 zero, one FO, one KHD or 2 KHW when I'm playing peacemaker+flash bot+iguana.

    I never played a securitate hacker in core team, I often play one but as lonely guy to boost REM/fairy dust HI/data scan without risking securitate ARO guys (sniper/feurebach).

    No one is talking about iguana, with last tag changes he's one of my favorite big guy and he did the job 4/5 games I played with him.

    I usually play 2 warcors on group 2 as flash pulse platforms, giving their order the first turn if necessary.

    I never played A team and I'll never play them. I should only try Kaplan Haris with laxmee.
     
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  13. Sicaris

    Sicaris Member

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    I've been having good fun with Valk, Avi and ORC hmg Lt in one team and Bolt haris, spitfire and CoC in another. They compliment eachother well and have a lot of flexibility especially for zone control missions.

    Especially of note is Avicenna's burst 2 WIP 15 flash pulse is a surprisingly effective ARO.
     
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