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Triad of Triads?

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Nuada Airgetlam, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Khalipo

    Khalipo Well-Known Member

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    Great list. I would swap the group 1 chaksa for a liberto mine layer and swap it for the diplomatic from group 2.

    So you have one mine maybe guarding one of your HVTs and five orders to wreck havoc with the liberto.
     
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  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    I think I like this change. With the SWC spare, the defensive capacity of the libertos is massive in unmasking.
     
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  3. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Thanks! So, something like this? Going first it's an alpha strike push, but how would you play this when going 2nd?

    Is tossing a mine into the Exclusion Zone legal when deploying a Minelayer?

    Also, anything about the Taagma and Ectros questions, please? :)


    CZTERY TRIADY 5
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3
    SUKEUL (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    KAMAEL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KAMAEL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (1.5 | 48)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KUMOTAIL Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  4. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    A mine can only deploy anywhere the minelayer could deploy, so you need to respect the exclusion zone.

    I don't have a lot of thoughts on the Taagma or Ectros questions - I've almost never used Ectros, and tend to play my Taagmas as Kriigel agents to threaten fake ZOC AROs (which avoids the suspicion from your opponent of 'why doesn't your symbioarmour model have a mate?')
     
  5. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Gotcha, thanks! :)

    Is the price the problem? Or is just Neema that much better for the price? I thought about a wound-heavy 10-Order list with 4xRasail (2W + Chaksa each, Symbiomated), but also possibly with Ectros / Neema there as well. A durability angle, if you will? Would Shock / Viral be too much of a problem?

    Ah, I see, in my case that's alleviated a bit by "Neema, two Sukeuls and Gao Rael already have all of my Symbiomates, lol" :D
     
  6. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    It's mostly the price. My favourite tohaa pieces are all in the middleweight category, and I think it's where the symbiomates, symbioarmour and triad rules come together best for me. An Ectros or Neema is the kind of piece that belongs more in a core link than a triad.

    That said, I think the lists you're writing are coming together well, and you're building your own style with them. A lot of what works for someone will depend on what they enjoy using, what local tables and opponents are like, etc.
     
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  7. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Well, the game was a 3:9 loss for me. Turns out the opponent started and uncovered a Speculo Killer who walked up in IMP-1 and shamelessly boarding shotgunned a triad three times (!!!) then finally died. I've attempted to kill the little shit and only annoyed him by surviving the shootout twice :D

    They also brought an Avatar. Which got killed and then repaired and won them the game. Yes. In this format. But they got that mini from their SO, didn't get to normally use it, so I can't be too annoyed I guess.

    And them being a newbie, myself as well, they've spent CT to not only lose me 2 CT from main group but also to make me unable to spend mine, turn one. I didn't check them on that and obviously you can do only one of those :(

    Turn one was a complete loss to me, I've barely done a thing, objective wise, lost a lot of models. Woke up the Gao with Kumotail and then attempted heroics of reviving the unconscious K1 Sukeul (the one I needed for the Avatar! GRRRR) from the shotgunned triad, but it obviously DIED. I've managed to run the Neema Triad turn two down to a console and discovered the target in the first attempt. I lost the Makaul along the way to a Gaki and the Kaeltar to an TO Camo hidden deployed ML Noctifier. Neema barely survived to click only thanks to her 2W, Symbiont and Symbiomate, on her very last legs, then died.

    It took the opponent three attempts to discover the correct HVT, but managed to kill them all. Used the reawakened Avatar as a losblocker shield and the pilot as specialist to click the console. Then proceeded to slaughter the HVTs with the Avatar.

    Turn three I've managed to push three remaining models into Group 1 and sneak out a reformed Makaul + Kaeltar + Kamael triad from the lower left corner of my table to his upper right one, within 8 orders and 3 Eclipses. The last order was my last (fifth, go Neema!) CT, which I used to coordinate the three models in the Triad, walk out from behind a corner and fire at the enemy HVT which died in a heap.

    They clicked more, discovered more, killed more, I got their main HVT target. Ended up 3:9, they won.

    I'm kinda miffed because they said they're a noob and they're bringing a fun list, but I don't think they really did - one of the most broken tags in the game, one of the best infiltrators in the game, TO camo hidden deployed missile launcher, the cheap spam of four Taighas and I think three Gakis. I expected a fun Morat list and faced that instead which was a pretty hardcore challenge for me.

    I'm a tad unhappy about the incorrect CT usage by them, too, but I also didn't recognize the issue and call them out on that.
     
  8. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    This is the list he apparently played. Tons of orders (10 Reg + 1 Irregular total with the Tactical Awareness and Strategos L3) to feed the Avatar and Speculo and that was enough :|

    GwBgjAPgzCIRBOApAVlksB2BAmJBCAFjFSjzATBAONPMuvzDzSgwA4RMCphUduYduzb5e/QcNE4UqMHyFR2PbihzKh7bvjyEEbLCm1RZahcLwABYORwI+hEYQI2Mdh05e37SR1Gf4rsw+fgFgzmiyQuFIlpZAA==
     
  9. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call them out for tryharding here. Their list looks fine and is actually rather exploitable in my opinion.
    It takes some time getting used to fighting impersonators and TAGs and deploying triads correctly, just keep playing, you're on the right track!

    A few things:
    If I got that right, only Neema arrived at the console alice and activated it. I do not think Neema could have done that, for she is not a specialist. Make sure to double check who is able to push buttons in eveey mission. :)

    Secondly, remember that the Speculo is pretty much the only Impersonator in the game starting in IMP-1-State against Tohaa, because of his Impersonation plus.

    When reviving the sukeul with the Kumotail, you could have used a command token to reroll any failed attempts.

    As for the Avatar:
    This thing is freaking expensive. We're talking “almost half the army“-expensive. That thing needs to be strong, but it is easily exploitable, because it usually weakens the rest of the army quiet a bit.
    When fighting something like that, you usually have the option to either fight and kill it, if the circumatances allow it, or attak the order pool in order to limit its capabilities.
    Funnily enough, a Gao-Tarsos could have helped quite a bit at killing the cheerleaders.
    Lastly, once you've knocked a TAG unconcious and you know about the opponent having engineers: don't take chances, kill the thing. Shoot it again or stab it. You can actually Coup de grace TAGs as well. It's usually worth the orders. I had to learn this the very hard way, myself. :D

    I really hope you've been enjoying Tohaa so far. Keep up the enthusiasm and good work!
     
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  10. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Neema brought a Kaeltar with her :D

    I couldn't have used a CT to reroll because the other noob I played not only went first and not only took away 2 Orders from me but also forbade me from using CT (paying 2 CT himself even though he went first). I realized only after the fact :(

    Add to this the 2 additional Orders on Avatar and him putting two things into Reserve while I couldn't put any at all...

    There's gonna be a full rematch now, because of how badly we've done this but I'm miffed that he did those things, that I didn't catch them and that I was told he's planning to play CA on Morats and then brought this to the table, while I specifically didn't expect tags. It's all left a sour taste, but it's not Tohaa fault.

    He was all like "you should've just brought a TO Camo missile launcher!"... I don't have that in my army, ffs.
     
  11. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Losing to the big guy is a bit of a rite of passage, but for reference, the Avatar dies extremely reliably to any triad with a makaul that makes it into melee. It's our best way to fight it by a solid margin.
     
  12. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    I like that Avatar list, though. It's like something I'd write :)
     
  13. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    @RobertShepherd
    So, turns out my whole idea of "let's fuel the Triad mobility with two orders from the Makaul" is wrong :(

    Unless the 2nd order of the Makaul isn't lost and just becomes Irregular instead?

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_and_Fury_Characteristic

     
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    No, you don't get to activate triads with impetuous orders. Models in triads are always not impetuous, which means they either don't generate, or can't spend, their impetuous order. Additionally, fireteams can always only be activated by regular orders (excepting special cases like NCO and tactical awareness).

    But, triads are conventionally mobile because you can spend lots of orders moving one triad forward, and it will always be able to do something useful on the way up and when it gets there, if you've composed it well.
     
  15. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Yeah, I thought that was one of the points of putting a Makaul (or even two) into a Triad, to push it ahead fast :|
     
  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Its a reasonable mistake, but no. Makauls go in triads because they're cheap, and so you always have smoke and close assault capability on demand. They're part of what lets you male a list where each triad can do everything you might need.
     
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  17. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    @RobertShepherd
    Can you please explain the interaction to me please?

    I was browsing Low Tech for my Ariadna Blackjack and saw this nested there. Are Symbiont Armor troops Shock Immune then because they're originally multiwound, regardless of current wordcount? Or how am I supposed to understand this?

    FAQ
    N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.2
    Q: Do the Shock Special Ammunition affect those troops with the Lo-Tech A Special Skill or with Symbiont Armor?
    A: No. They count as troopers with a Wounds Attribute higher than 1.
    Related Pages: Lo-Tech, Shock Special Ammunition, Symbiont Armor
    N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.2
    Q: Do the special effects of Shock Special Ammunition affect those troops with the Lo-Tech A Special Skill using their Battle Ravaged Troop Profile, or with Inactive Symbiont Armor?
    A: No. They count as troops with Wounds Attribute higher than 1.
    Related Pages: Lo-Tech, Shock Special Ammunition, Symbiont Armor
     
    #37 Nuada Airgetlam, Dec 27, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  18. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Yes, models with symbioarmour have two (or more) wounds, just split across multiple profiles. A model that began the game with symbioarmour will never suffer the effects of shock ammunition (that is to say, will never pass straight to dead as a result of a wound from shock ammo), regardless of whether they're in active or inactive symbioarmour state.
     
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  19. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Gotcha, thanks :)

    Any tips for Decapitation? Should I run a 10-model list and aim for mutiwounds with Symbiomates? Any other tips? FD1/FD2 might be extremely useful as well as AD troopers, I guess? Hidden deploy TO Camo is an option, but I can't rely on regular camo because I'm playing OSS, so there will surely be this ridiculous 24pts MSV3 sniper.
     
  20. Torres

    Torres Well-Known Member

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    There is no such a thing.
     
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