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Tournament Organizers: If highly classified is one of your missions, have you ever pre-picked?

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Tom McTrouble, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Question is as above. In your ITS events with highly classified, have you ever pre-picked the classified missions and published them before the tournament so that lists could be tailored to those objectives? I am adamantly against the practice (it seems to violate the rules of the mission completely) but am being told that it is common practice.
     
  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    I agree in being against it. The goal is to test your ability to make an all based covered list, similar to one you'd do running TACOS or another card objective system.
    I never saw the practice of pre-determining the classified for all table prior to the event where I am (or even to flip one set of card that applies to all tables) but what is common practice around me is to simply never play Highly Classified outside of occasional casual games between players who'd like to try the mission. Although we did discuss locally how to play a card objective tournament and it we were favorable iirc to making all tables use the same objectives.
     
    meikyoushisui and BLOODGOD like this.
  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
    Warcor

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    We once did it on-the-spot so that everyone was playing the same set of main objectives, but publishing it beforehand appears (like you said) to be directly against the point of the mission of being able to cope with almost anything.
     
  4. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    We pre picked classified few times for tournament because classifiedes werent in stores back then yet.

    It is also nice tool to tailor meta and lists for event as TO.

    With new classifieds this scenario is too random IMO and can f*** up whole armies with bad draw. It was random before but REALLY.
     
    xagroth and RogueJello like this.
  5. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
    Warcor

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    This. The point of the mission is to stress-test players adaptability and list building skills whilst playing.
     
  6. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    So (and I'm really not meaning this to be accusatory in any way), what do you consider the line for altering how a mission is written to be played when the event is ITS official (if it's not, I don't really care what rules we settle on)? Impracticality? Balance issues? I'm almost always on the side of RAW during these discussions, so it's hard for me to see a position where I think it's ok to change aspects of the mission.
     
  7. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Ah I just skip this mission ;) Ok, we had it on last tournament but it was beer&vodka event so so...;)

    There are missions in ITS that are simply non competetive;) Some works at beer and vodka event, some are still fun at casual play. And some are just unplayable.

    It is ok to accept it:)
     
    #7 Mruczyslaw, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  8. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Can only talk as a player.
    In our tournament (ITS-9) the open classifieds where drawn from the TO bevor the round and where for all player the same.
    You are right that pre-picking is against the nature of the mission. I play Tohaa and it was my first List with a Hacker :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    Whould only not want to have HC and Hunting Party at the same tournamen, cause you need for both special army lists.
     
  9. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

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    I've never purposely altered an ITS mission for a tournament. As a player I would strongly consider not playing in an event where missions were modified, in a "speak with your attendance" kind of way. I agree with @Robock that Highly Classified is a bad tournament mission (especially in ITS10), and this kind of pre-selection change is putting lipstick on a pig.
     
  10. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    That is the current plan for me unfortunately. I don't wanna be dramatic, I just don't agree with putting in changes and running it as an official event as an overall concept.
     
    BLOODGOD likes this.
  11. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

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    I agree that it is unfortunate. I would tell the organizer that you're not planning on attending and why (in a charitable but frank way), so they can take that feedback under consideration for future events. It's the best you can do, really.
     
  12. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I've run a few tournaments, never with Highly Classified, since I feel that it's too random. I feel that publishing the picks ahead of time would resolve some of the issues with it:
    1) It's random, such that one table would have easier classifieds than another. With the missions pre-selected everybody is playing the same set.
    2) It favors some factions which have an easier time fitting in all or most of the specialists, while penalizing others that do not. Pre-selecting allows people to build lists tailored to the selected classifieds, much in the same way they can tailor their lists to other missions.
     
  13. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Dont take ITS too seriously. With each season its... just say less perfect;)
    But what is MOST important - those rules are for You and Your players not other wy around;) Its not Holy Bible, good time is most important... ITS is only a tool, do whatever with it to make it happen;)

    Event is for people, not other way;) Just chill and have fuuuuun!
     
    Wolf likes this.
  14. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't agree. ITS rules are for all players (not just me and mine) when it's an ITS event. ITS has it's issues but the point of a unified set of rules for what is essentially "ranked play" is to ensure that everyone competing for that is on the same level. Once you start making rules outside of that for your event, it's not a fair system anymore.

    I will go to tournaments with custom rules or scenarios any day. I just don't think those rules should affect my ELO.
     
  15. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Dude, it isnt fair system. By overall rulles like Xenotech.
    By mission construction. By missions like HC or decapitation;)
    By how ranking works.
    Do You know there was entire season when elo was counted wroing, in opposite way? CB done nothing about it except going 'oopsie'.
    And people really dont play same game - read this forum, see how understandinmg of rules and metas varies.

    Really. No reason to care about ITS and struggle with its imperfections.
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Don't really care.

    It would raise my eyebrows but it's not any worse than some of the things I've seen in tournies. I mainly attend tournies based on my availability not whether it's ITS or not (I've entered a tournament with TPs for best painted with an unpainted army).

    Yes it undermines ITS by calling it an "ITS" tournament. But I think the value of running an ITS tournament outweighs the damage.

    The issue is when it becomes so commonplace as to skew the stats. Ideally we want the stats to show the amount of tournaments running HC have dropped off a cliff in ITSX so that it gets looked at.

    Tl;dr it's putting lipstick on a pig, but pigs can still make fine pets.
     
  17. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    So it seems like most of the objections to pre-picking are based on the spirit of the HC mission as opposed to the idea of slightly altering rules for ITS tourney (which is more where my issue lies). Honestly I'm kind of surprised that the former is the hang-up, but that's why I asked the question I guess. @inane.imp would you be as indifferent if a change was a little more extreme? For example, a requirement like "In this ITS event, TAGs may not be used"?
     
  18. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    There was a moment when HC missions were chosen as regular classifieds? Or am I wrong?
    As player A draws 2 cards, chooses one, repeats. Player B does same. This is HC pool.

    IMO problem in this season is with new classifiedes - they are more varied than previous.
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I literally played in a tournament that gave out tournament points for 'best painted' with a completely unpainted force. It doesn't get much more extreme than that. Although admittedly it wasn't ITS.

    I've played at a single list tournie where I thought you didn't know the missions until the day. Which is significantly more extreme.

    I'd probably go 'wtf? Why?' to a 'no TAGs' restriction but depending on the people involved still play. The Australian meta is small enough that we basically all know each other (at 1 step removed) so are more likely to chat about the decisions than boycott.

    I completely understand your POV of it undermining the sanctity of ITS. It's the hang up I have with it as well: I don't care about the 'spirit' of the mission. But there's three things that mitigates against that (for me):
    1. ITSX is a mess anyway with Xenotechs and Datatrackers.
    2. Increasing participation in ITS is a goal in Australia (we have a long tradition of non-ITS events).
    3. It'll still be fun. And ultimately that's what this is about.

    So I don't like it. But I still think it's better than not running the tournament at all. So I'd probably still attend and just chat to the guys who came up with the idea and point out a better approach is just not run missions that are considered broken so that @HellLois takes a look at them.

    TBH I'd probably be more likely to boycott a 'pure ITS' tournament that was Hunting Party, Highly Classified and BTV. But that would be on grounds that "that's just not fun, I have better things to do with my time".

    OTOH you guys on the East Coast (?) US seem to have a surfeit of ITS tournaments and a less close-knit meta (due to more people in it). So voting with your attendance seems like an actual option.

    * This thread reminds me, I should convince my meta to playtest my house rules to HC. Which are basically that the you choose your two open classifieds and your opponent chooses their two open classifieds (instead of drawing randomly). If you both choose the same classified the second version becomes 'Extreme', but needs to be completed independently of the first (IE Dr 1 thing for the normal, and then 2 more things for the Extreme).
     
    #19 inane.imp, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  20. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen a TO pre-pick classifieds for this mission yet, but I would prefer that method. Either that or a "master" draw at tournament time so that every table plays the same mission.

    I feel current iteration is too random and places undue restrictions on list-building.