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Touchin up on the Tohaa

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Deathadder84, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Deathadder84

    Deathadder84 Member

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    So I played a practice game recently. unfortunately it was also a teaching game (to teach the other person how to play) and I tried some things out. wanted to bounce it off a wall here, and get some feedback and thoughts perhaps?

    So Chaksa Aux HMG used to be my bread and butter, but I keep reading that they aren't worth it anymore. Are they bad, or just not optimal?

    I also read about triple Gao-Rael sniper Triads, and I kinda made a budget version with one Gao-Rael and two Kamael snipers. Good idea? Bad? Also read some tactics, and maybe a Gao Rael, Kamael, and then Kaeltar chain of command for a triad?

    I did try out a Sukeul HMG, but honestly didn't use it once (to be fair, we only got one round in). I ran a Sukeul, Makaul Makaul triad (is that good?) and really didn't get a feel for it. Do you use it's big BS to run and gun, or is it better like most things to use it like a scalpel and precision trim enemy pieces out?

    I read in one of the tactics here that you only wanna spend like 3 orders a turn gunnin down models. Is that how I'm supposed to play? I don't think I can get a makaul anywhere to kill anything in 3 orders with having to throw smoke.

    And as a bonus, here are things I forgot, or got wrong..
    Thought a fireteam leader was leader the entire turn, not the entire order. Was wondering how you got a gunner into firing range with grenades, and then shot...
    B2 eclipse grenades in triads? It literally never occurred to me.
    Literally thought viral weapons only made you make a BTS roll instead of an armor, not two. No wonder they cost so much more points lol
     
  2. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Ok, one by one...

    - Neurotic Chaksa is subobtimal because you can use it only in your Reactive turn (unlike Total Reaction remotes from other Factions) and it's not cheap. Also, it doesn't have ARM, or several Wounds, or Visual Modifiers, or high BS... it only throws dice. And unless you are lucky with your dice, any Camo/TO will Surprise-shot it to death in one Order. On the other hand, it might work if you have several ARO's and the Chaksa is only tasked with the deffense of a smal portion of the table.
    - Gao-Rael sniper Triad is overkill, I think, and also a lot of points for just one deffensive Triad. Gao-Rael + 1/2 Kamael and Kaeltar is a popular one, as each one cover each other weaknesses, specially now that it is easy (between Keral Preceptor and Kriigel Agent) to combo them either with Smoke or with Mirrorball.
    - The Sukeul HMG is used to obliterate the enemy list with Move+Shoot orders until there are no enemies in sight. And while doing that, you get your Makauls or specialists closer to do their thing. After all, one advantage of Triads is that you can have multiple combinations of fighters+specialists to achieve killing the enemy and taking objectives at the same time (very Order efficient).
    - Usually you have a very limited ammount of Orders compared with the to-do list of things to acomplish during a game, so it is not a bad idea to decide beforehand (depending on the mission) how much time to spend killing, how much repositioning, how much taking objectives... But this is Tohaa, we can do everything at the same time. Do not fear to try all kind of combinations (and even change Triad-members mid-game) and find out what works for each situation.

    The bonus ones...
    - Yes, each time you spend an Order on a Fireteam, you decide who's gonna be the Leader.
    - Burst 2 Eclipse Grenades is one of the reasons why our oponents hate Makauls. We can almost completely ignore the shoot-the-ARO-trooper part of the Turn and just get our troops closer for the killing or the objective-taking.
    - Viral is expensive, but if you manage to get a linked Viral Combi close to the enemy it gets really nasty. Luckily (for the sake of the game balance) there is no Viral Combi Sukeul. People would refuse to play against Tohaa XDDDD
     
  3. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Viral also has shock 2 bts rolls with shock. Nwis and dogged love our virals xD
     
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  4. Einhorn

    Einhorn Tohaa Chain of Command

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    I have a question about Burst 2 Grenades/Grenade launchers because it was contested in last night's practice gaming. The argument was that grenade placements don't benefit from the +1B fireteam bonus, but Burst 2 Eclipse is definitely mentioned here. Where can I find documentation to support the Burst 2 Eclipse?
     
  5. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam_Bonuses

    There's really no question about it. Grenades/Launchers are a weapon so they are covered.

    The Burst bonus just doesn't apply if you're throwing speculatively.

     
  6. Einhorn

    Einhorn Tohaa Chain of Command

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    Ah, the tidbit about speculation must have been the contention and where people got confused. Awesome! I'm looking forward to going back to 2 Burst then! Thanks!
     
    #6 Einhorn, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  7. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Just one player's takes. Jeez its been a while since I've played Tohaa or given advice on it though.

    "Not optimal" is a strong term, though I find Chaksa HMG largely ineffective. Reaction REMs are good because they have B4 on the reactive turn, they can have supportware for effectively +3 BS, they have multiple "unconscious levels" so they are harder/more expensive to remove, and they are fast for taking the fight to the enermy.

    The Chaksa HMG has B4 in ARO. It can also go prone and can't be hacked, which are not nothing. But its lacking all of those other traits that make TR REMS effective. It can't attack the enermy. Its not fast. Its not durable.

    Back in the day, the Chaksa was 5-10 points cheaper than the REM. Now REMs have gotten better with supportware, and are the same price as the Chaksa. I'd look again at the Chaksa when it gets a decent price drop, hopefully in N4.

    The mechanics of fireteam triad penalize you for doubling or tripling down on your "pointmen". The first Gao Rael gets B2, but if he goes down, the others are not getting any bonus. I don't see a good argument for taking multiple identical ARO pieces in one triad. If you want to take a cheerleader and two different ARO pieces that might work, but I'm more inclined to take two triads and have two independently B2 ARO pieces instead.

    Seriously, the best advice I can give you is "stop thinking and play more games." You don't have enough information and experience atm to be making calls on what is good or bad. Just put random shit on the table and get multiple full games in.

    Sukuel HMG is one of the most powerful pieces Tohaa has ever had in its list. It fills so many gaps that used to define Tohaa. I legit think this was a very questionable design choice by corvus.

    If you are attacking with Makaul, either the enermy came to you, or you are running a huge list (like 20 models) with extra orders to pay for getting the Makauls up the table.

    3 orders/turn for attacking is a poor rule for a new player to go by. The correct number of orders to spend on attacking is "whatever feels right after you've had more practice games"
     
  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Since others have answered your rule questions, I just want to provide opinions to some of your opinion questions.

    I don't think they were ever that great. For just a couple points more you can get yourself a Gao-Rael, and I'd rather have the flamethrower/sensor chaksas personally.

    The big problem with this is that once one of the weaker units dies, the other two loses the bonuses that make the triad work. It's the same issue I see with the Makaul + Sukeul ML + Gao-Rael Sniper triads I see here not infrequently. The second triad is better but the Kamael can be a Makaul so you get template coverage. It's much more frightening to trade with a B2 flamethrower or B2 Eclipse if you can't deal with the Gao-Rael.

    Sukeul+Makaul+Specialist is the most standard triad. Use the gun where you need to, but keep in mind its not almighty and the Eclipse Smoke can get you around trickier situations easily.

    It's going to depend a lot on the mission, and keep in mind that that tactica was written around a 10-order order economy. Keep in mind there's also not a distinction in Tohaa in spending orders to shoot and spending orders to get specialists to buttons because every triad can have both a gun and a specialist. I personally feel like Tohaa plays very well at about 14 orders, which means you can commit at least 4-5 orders per turn to shootouts.
     
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  9. Deathadder84

    Deathadder84 Member

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    thank you all for the comments and help. I'll keep it all in mind when playing. I had a pretty good grasp on the game before I stopped playing, but now there has been a lot of changes and I'll have to keep playing and reading up to maximize my effort