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Total immunity query

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by theradrussian, May 6, 2019.

  1. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of snark - is it because someone doesn't agree with your opinion?

    If you wanna talk f2f winning, its a FAT2 model, bar none. But what you wanna do is argue. I'm fine with that, but surely you can see that making BTS = ARM and ammo types = useless is a bit silly? Or is it good that the toughest model in the game is 35-45 points? Is it fine for it not to be the several 70+ TAGs that rarely see use? Is it wrong of me to question the wisdom of sidestepping the ARM stat to achieve this?

    We're done here since you seem to have grievous issue with my stance - I never said it was a complaint either, nor did my ikari army ;)
     
  2. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    It is not the toughest model in the game

    Leave your karakuri even in suppression before a proper HMG beatstick like linked Vet or Swiss Guard - wont be able to hold them for long.
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Quick! Go to the first post and remove the question where you ask if you should stop the salt before someone quotes it!

    And your 7 bullet point list where you go full retard unprovoked, too, I guess. I have to ask, are you taking this personally? You always seem desperate to get one-up on me.
    You should probably put me on ignore if you do.
     
  4. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Aaaand you've gone for personal insults, while citing a list of valid points? Ok
     
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  5. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but longer than anything without ODD. So based on ARM (the thing that saves you if hit), it's currently the best
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Those were as little ad hominem as your list had valid points (considering it's actually rhetorical questions directed at me that I've already answered). And you still seem to have a personal issue with me. Seriously. Use your block list instead of replying.
     
  7. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Which of the points were invalid, again? Does special ammo actually work versus TI? Is there a TAG with better ARM, when considering said special ammo?

    I don't block anyone as is my personal preference. You do you, though!
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    When you post a list of points that can be validated I can tell you which ones are valid. As to your rhetorical questions:

    Clearly I don't think ARM = BTS is a silly mechanic.
    Clearly I don't think Karakuri are the toughest model in game.
    And I haven't made any judgement on whether it's wrong for you to think ARM = BTS is silly, nor will I. It is entirely your interpretation that me not agreeing with your opinion constitutes such a judgement.
     
  9. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Electric Pulse does not have any ammo type and does not force an ARM or BTS roll, so it would bypass Total Immunity. So, the funny thing to do is send a unit with Electric Pulse into them. If they can be approached them from behind or through smoke to negate their ability to shoot back, they have a pretty high chance get zapped. With a Phys and CC of 10 they only have a 20% chance to avoid the becoming Immobilized 2 for 2 turns.
     
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  10. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Big think
     
  11. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    ARM does not matter in Infinity
    investing in a high cost model you should look for winning FTF rolls in Active and Reactive turns
     
  12. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Uhhhhh.... Whatever you say chief!

    But real talk. Arm is overpriced so usually bad. Karakuri sidesteps that by subginh bts which is cheap or even free (see: moderators). Also ignores ammo types that tend to devalue arm. Not sure how I can make it clearer
     
  13. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    Can you please calm down a bit?
     
  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Sometimes that's fine. Even the weakest HMGs are edged to win this f2f roll. You don't see people complain about Moiras despite the fact that their only weakness is nanopulsers, do you?

    The Cutter and Sphinx are significantly more survivable due to TO/Marker state and a 3rd point of STR.

    Without the full haris you don't win a lot of f2f except on the HSG. A B3 MK12 doesn't wound very often. This makes Karakuri very inefficient active turn pieces when unlinked -- you'll waste a lot of orders with them shrugging off wounds compared to real fire superiority pieces like those with 2W+ and Visual Mods (Asura/Hac Tao/Swiss, for example, and I think it's a fair comparison with the haris.)

    Seconding this. There are things that are far harder to deal with for the cost than Karakuri are.
     
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  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    If shooting them to death with an HMG is truly too difficult for you (spoiler alert the math says statistically it really shouldn't be).

    Hack them, Smoke them, beat them to death in CC, flank them to remove the cover bonus. If you insist on smashing your face into ARM9 in cover the problem is probably you. Attack them from a different angle, literally, shoot them from a direction they don't have cover in they go down to ARM6.

    As other people have already said there are models that are far more difficult to remove requiring specialised equipment to even stand a chance to hit the damn things.

    As you've been away from the game for a while I assume the good old Kamau sniper is about to blow your mind when you run into it. Literally. It'll blow your brains out on ARO. That thing is way nastier to deal with.
     
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  16. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    I too think, they make the Karakuri Project too resilent for their buck with the new TI. A FAQ that will quit the choice of ARM/BTS for normal ammo is all we need. Personally I feel TI is a bad skill. Fluffwise it is absurd, that you can be immum to AP. AP will pentrate the armour, how can you be immume to that? How can you be immume to Monofilament? It cuts through everything. A Wulf with lots of fur is fire immume? A robot geisha has not to care about EM? High Power flashlightlaserbeams are easy peasy for the wulfman?

    But okay, its a rule. I can (have to) live with that. So in case of the Karakuri we can go for the two main weakness(es?): CC 10 and PH 10. Template Weapons are not the best idea, because if they are able to shoot back at you, they can template you as well. Bring mines needs three orders minimum (move, put down mine, do something to provoke ARO) so you can put 12 till 15 shoot HMG on good range on them in three orders as well). That leaves order heavy shooting or CC.

    For shooting we can use the annoyed TAGs because of FAT1. If you play Ramah then there is the option to FAT2 them with burst 5 :-)

    But they are still some damn (too) good roadblocks especially for Armoury (CC!) or missions like Aquisition or Safe Area.
     
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  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with (old) Total Immunity the skill was the difference between the name and the effects of the skill. For the new players, pre-FAQ, Total Immunity only made you immune to the special damage effects of Normal-type Ammo. Exotic-type and Bio-type ammo affected you as written in their rules.

    I really think CB should have renamed the skill rather than change the rule to match the name. But it's what we have now.
     
  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    This. We have three ammo types categories, we should simply get three corresponding immunities - with Shock thrown in to the mix. Some ammo should probably change category.

    Karakuris are very resilient now, but as people noticed 1) they're basically damage sponges, with linked Mk12 being their only good long range weapon, and 2) normal ammo works as good as ever. TR bot with Supportware has very good chance of stopping them.

    I'm more concerned about what this change will do for werewolves, especially McMurrough. They're faster and have smoke to bypass more problematic AROs.

    The change that sits with me the worst is the TI straight out protecting against things like Flash Pulses, but that might be fixed by a later faq. Hopefully.
     
  19. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Probably just after GW ressurects WHFB.
     
  20. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Also any symbiomate just passively protecting against flash pulses without expenditure!
    (but as a tradeoff in an overall nerf it is okay I believe)
     
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