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Too early for August?

Discussion in 'News' started by Melkhior, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    And Katyusha and Uragan. Trench-hammer is a bit rare outside Ariadna as well. Ditto Ambush Camo, Lo-tech, and Non Hackable.

    Most of that can be dumbed down, of course, or doesn't exist on models that you'll find in CodeOne, or are rules that are getting overhauled for N4 (Parachutist, for example, is rare outside Ariadna but in CodeOne this seems to have become one with Airborne Infiltration. Ambush Camo is easily simplified to regular Camo and "Trench-Hammer" sounds like a CodeOne CCW to me. And so on.)
     
  2. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    sniff, i remember when autocannon was an airadnan exclusive
     
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  3. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    they've never been "an ariadnan exclusive".

    they've been a TAK exclusive.

    Otherwise, we'd have gotten them in the sectorial where they would have made perfect sense aka USARF.
     
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  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    While it used to be an Ariadna exclusive, it has been available to Kurgat engineers since Human Sphere N2.

    Let’s also not forget T2 weapons; I don’t think anyone else has those.

    And Plasma used to be Combined Army exclusive until Aleph and O-12 poached some.
     
  5. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Again, saying the Autocannon is "Ariadna exclusive" is a bit of a misnomer. We haven't seen it across the whole of the faction.
    T2 weapons are the Ariadnan thing.

    Plasma, IMO, still is a very Combined Army exclusive thing--there's just a few Human profiles now with it. It's like the Vulkan Shotguns in that regards.
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    On a side note, I wonder if/how will Katyusha and Uragan change. And if CB will come up with something interesting regarding Kuryer remotes.
     
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  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    well, exclusivities are not 1-faction things anymore. Now the game is going from the "this faction is different because it has this" to the "this faction is different because they cannot access this". Some factions have lost all their "exclusivities" over time, while others just weng gaining little access to exclusivities of other factions. There is some disparity on that, but it still isn't helping to get the game more balanced.
     
  8. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Yes please. PLEASE!
     
  9. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    But is it really desirable to have rules that are only available in one faction? One of my favourite things about Infinity is that all factions have access to nearly the same gear or variations on the same gear. The difference comes from how pieces of gear are combined, or not combined.

    Regarding Plasma: is it on cheap expendable REMs or only on high cost HI?

    I think that leads to more interesting and granular faction identities than in many other games.
     
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  10. Wizzy

    Wizzy Well-Known Member

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    Reminder:
    Last and Special live on the Betrayal manga, with his illustrator AG Nakamura and the Guest : Alberto Abal, himself. This tonight.
    Don't forget, come all, the more we are, better it's :p

    It may only be in Spanish, but you can ask your questions in English.
    The auto subtitles will be available on youtube between friday and sunday, like the 1st live (which is nice and makes a good bonus making off ^^) and the auto-translation works at 60-70% in my language I find, it could do it for you too.

    Come on see, Share, Like the live :grinning:

     
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  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think that it is a good thing that some factions have more/better access to X, and others to another thing. The problem I see is when CB uses lore to justify giving access to certain tools (that were designed for other factions because they lacked something the first one had) using forced-lore excuses, but then they don't do the same in the other way.

    I hope we see a change of this way of doing things in N4
     
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  12. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    I see what you mean. Do you have any specific examples? To me, it would seem an even more forced excuse to keep something from a faction when someone else is using it to good effect, unless the receiving faction actually lacks the infrastructure to produce the gear or even buy it on the black market.
     
  13. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    for example, pano and the smoke. They only have that "restriction", only that, which it is only true for normal smoke (they got EM, jammers, full auto...tools dessigned in the game to deal against hi-tech oponents, but now in the high tech faction because reason). In nomads instead they have all commandment-related rules restricted (no lieutenant2, no CoC, no strategos and so). One have baned access to a single weapon that brings a combo for half the factions, and they got a lot of MSV2 to compensate it, the other have banned access to any form of comandment rule and more strict fireteams (only corregidor got real wildcards for example) because forced lore-reasons. I am not saying that one faction is better than the other, just that the restrictions don't hit the same depending on which factions we look in. For example, the lack of MSV3 in most factions is not a problem, the same as not having hacker device + (except for white noise, almost all factions have access to the same programs, just in a different way), while the access to the smoke combo (not so extended, there are a lot of sectorials with smoke that don't have MS2) is something more impactful (but that seems will be addressed in N4).
     
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  14. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    I can see where you're coming from. To me, it seems like there is absolutely no reason for them NOT to pick up on those pieces of tech if their opponents are using them. All of the factions are, after all, more or less high-tech. It is weird though, that they do not have access to smoke, but doctrinal inertia is a funny thing even in the real world.

    In the end it seems like a matter of taste. I, for one, wouldn't really mind if every single rule was available to every faction, as long as they came on different enough platforms and in different combinations. I kind of like how the armies are adopting each others practices, much like real world armies have tended to do throughout history. I find games with strong faction identities like Warhammer 40K dull and uninspiring, because adherence to faction identity tends to stagnate the story of the game world (Which is kind of the point in 40K lore, so they can be forgiven, I guess).

    Like if Haqq had four different impersonators with, shared AVA like Dog Warriors, so you didn't know what was behind the marker(s), whereas Yu Jing had only one, but it was HI. Those kinds of differences can give a lot of faction identity in my mind, without saying that only faction x has access to tech z.

    I think my TL;DR is that I would rather see faction design follow in lockstep with an organically developing sci-fi setting, than factions being kept distinctly separate and unique, because that is simply something that breaks my suspension of disbelief. But it really is just a matter of taste. I just want to point out that there are different perspectives and it is not always about which is "right".
     
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  15. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but if that were to happen, I can assure you the claims from certain factions would be really hard, and some factions would get nerfs from it again
     
  16. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    This point can't be stressed enough. A factions identity is based it thenmultiple ways it can field something, not what it cant field. You Jing and really JSA got the CC game on lock from every unit type except a remote can do CC well. USARF got Bikes. CJC got AD, Nomads got optimized hacking. Pan O has gun fighters etc etc etc. Those are identities I support.
     
  17. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Ugh. USARF's faction identity is not and never has been bikes.
     
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  18. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt say it's only Bikes and I wouldnt say they have the best bikes in the game but they can pull it off and now that MSV1 can see through smoke, dropping a shotgun template under cover is gonna be a new tactic for them.
     
  19. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    You know who can pull it off better?

    TAK. Who initially were supposed to have Irregular Warband bikes, while Mavericks were supposed to be the 'disciplined' bikers of Ariadna.
    Yet of the two factions, which has Fireteam: Duo on their bikes? Whose bikers have Mine Dispensers?

    Saying "USARF got bikes" is like saying "That fire truck is red" in terms of the current design philosophy.
    It's basically a given.
     
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  20. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    Well, here is hoping that we soon see more people using Mavericks. They have always been interesting and the known changes in N4 (Crits, no penalties for bike dodging, allowing models to squeeze through spaces half their base, and MSV1 seeing through smoke) makes it look like they will be better.

    They also will be one of the few MSV models to bring their own smoke.
     
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