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Tohaa Trident: Operations Manual

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by TheRedZealot, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to say that if your meta has those tables, its going to be a problem for running this type of list. Sorry i was unclear on that.

    My points for what you want to have in your dz are for helping you choose what table side to deploy on, as going second you should be choosing table sides. Coming from a more aro focused build, people might have the impulse to just get whichever side has the high ground, which is irrelevant for everyone except the Lt.
     
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  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    That makes a lot more sense. :)
     
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  3. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    On the nikoul profil..

    Even if it doesn't look appealing at first on paper, each time i field him, it really worthed his points. And with a stratuscloud it become a real ARO nightmare (-3 strat/-3 cover/-3 mimetism / -1Burst and him start with no modifier...). And you may deploy it anywhere and he'll get cover .. it might surprise your opponent. With a symbiomate he'll make your opponent loose a lot of orders

    His viral sniper make a real threat and paired with another ARO piece it might shine. Against Ariadna he's like MVP each time. Even against TAG he's able to handle them.

    I understand that this profil doesn't seem really good on paper (not able to put in triad so burst 1 in ARO no msv 2 .. he stands inbetween many more specialized ARO troopers like gao rael/ clipso sniper etc), but after bringing it on almost all my list, he proved many times it's a top tier of our troops.
    4,5/5 to me
     
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  4. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I gave this unit another shot this weekend because the tournament used the Spec-Ops rules and for some reason, Stratuscloud only costs 2 EXP.
    Two Stratusclouds should give me enough flexibility in deployment, should they?
    While this statement was true and the Nikoul certainly is our best long range ARO piece, getting shot at on the opponents conditions just isn't worth it in my opinion.
    Pour guy got shredded by HMGs twice and only provided a minor speed bump for my opponents far superior shooty bois.
     
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  5. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    i think @RobertShepherd would definitely agree with you. i do agree the nikoul is our best long range aro piece, but i also agree with what @OrderMonkey says below, that getting shot on the opponents terms isn't usually worth it.

    that being said, certain missions the nikoul is still worth it, missions where you really just want to slow down the opponent from reaching your table side as much as possible, like supplies.

    i think the thing really hurting it is the kamau. mainly that it seems people are bringing ways to react to kamaus, which involves white noise, which indirectly makes the nikoul worse as an option. it might be the variations in local metas that are affecting how we view it, it seems there are a decent amount of local metas that have made the nikoul not as shiny as it is in others.

    for example, in my local meta ive been seeing a lot of tunguska and 0-12 lately, which involves seeing fireteams of guys with structure instead of wounds making viral useless, which makes the gao-rael sniper a better option cause at lease it can see through smoke.
     
  6. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I think my biggest issue with the Nikoul is I just never feel like Im investing points efficiently in him. There are too many other pressures on units I want to take so I find it difficult to assign the points value to the Nikoul.
     
  7. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Why do you say structure makes viral useless? Hollow Men have good BTS values, but any weapon that forces two saves against DAM15 should always be at least nominally effective.
     
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  8. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Just regarding my thoughts on Nikouls generally, I like them enough that they make maybe a third to a half of my lists. If it helps, I generally follow the following guidelines for their use;

    1. if possible, deploy on the absolute back of the table edge. With sapper there's no need to deploy in cover, so you can use the full depth of your DZ to add further distance between you and the enemy. Only a couple other models in the game have this capability and none of them are as tough as a nikoul. If your opponent is using a linked missile launcher or TRHMG remote as their defensive elements this can let you reliably out-range them, but it's especially important defensively as you're hoping to force enemy HMGs to engage you from outside 32". (Coincidentally, deploying on the very back of the table will give you superior cover against enemy airborne troops and let you blat Van Zant if your opponent is Ariadna.)

    2. if you can, deploy them somewhere they can drop prone and get total cover from attackers. Don't do this at the expense of getting outside 32" of enemy HMGs, but it's nice to have the option to preserve the nikoul's order against an attack that it can't possibly survive. All you really want if you're using it as an ARO piece is to sap enough enemy orders that an attack that gets to your DZ doesn't have the resources left to safely circumvent your flamethrower defenses, and if you can make sure it survives that to keep generating an order, all the better.

    3. if you're considering an attack with the nikoul, be aware that you can enter sapper safely by moving to juuust outside enemy LOF, then using the sapper skill to change your silhouette and extend it outward into LOF of the enemy without provoking an ARO (because the state change happens at the conclusion of the order).

    4. Like most snipers, the value of the nikoul increases the later into the game they survive.

    5. The defensive synergy with the Draal can present a savage obstacle for most conventional attack pieces. A TAG or a core-linked HMG can struggle to kill a Nikoul through these layered defenses. However, consider carefully whether it's the best use of the stratuscloud, since the draal otherwise wants to operate very offensively, and you can end up forcing either it or the Nikoul into a weak position in order to try to benefit from the synergy. It's not essential, just nice.

    6. This probably didn't need to be said, but: don't take the nikoul if you aren't going to give it a symbiomate.
     
  9. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    @RobertShepherd Very good sum up on the nikoul !

    I would add that nikoul can be interesting when mixing with other ARO like gao rael
    With symbiomates some may have had hard time to pass through the wall
     
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  10. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    ok useless was an exaggeration.
     
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  11. Khalipo

    Khalipo Active Member

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    Today I used the combo nikoul and statuscloud from the specops. I faced shasvastii and a sheskin was hitting me on 3s and i was aiming at 12s.

    Still got critted but I think it's a very strong combo for T1
     
  12. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    Reaction on Aelis
    I discovered Aelis mainly while I was trying Spiral Corps
    Aelis is the character which can score the most classified i know :
    Mapping, in extremis recovery, rescue, Hvt ID check,Net undermine, hvt kidnaping, capture, data scan, hvt espionage, sabotage,extrem prejudice. I exclude predator cause aelis is not good at cc ^^.
    It's 11 classified objectives she's able to score making her quite essential on scenario like highly classified, or each scenario with 2 secondary classified objective.

    Now from an operative point of view : she has sensor. unlike chaksa sensor, you won't have to spend spend 2 or 3 orders just to bring her to the frontline.. if she's in an offensive triad she will be already there.
    K1 is not as interesting as it was before heavy weaponery was bring to us by sukuels but viral still is a very good weapon in her hands.
    Her Khd with WIP 14 and BTS 3 is well suited for her
    Combi + Flash pulse = good range from 0-60cm which is really nice, and flash pulse with WIP 14 is an excellente ARO
    And to complete her loadout she has a nanopulser which allow her to make intuitive attacks.

    Triangulated fire is 1/ very situationnal 2/ cost too many orders 3/you need an order to place you in LoS of the enemy before using it. . If I go for this solution, it means i depleted all others solutions and this is not a real good sign ^^

    to conclude
    It's a very polyvalent and versatil trooper, and very efficient KillerHacker, very usefull.
    She's costy but it's an entier toolbox. Take her if you're going to use at least one or two of her toys and if there're some classified objectives to score :) If not, go for another troop and take a chaksa sensor ^^
     
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  13. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    The only problem with Aelis is the cost and the list where you want to fit it

    it shines on 10 order lists
     
  14. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, giving her a KHD was a weird yet effective way to improve her. If we didn't have the Sukeul and the Draal she would be a near autoinclude.
    Still, she is quite good and I use her from time to time.
     
  15. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I don't know... 30 points for a 1-wound model is just too expensive in my opinion.
    Though I, too, field her in LI tournaments, as the rest if her kit is pretty good and I usually just... have the points.
     
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  16. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    But might be still worth it against scary ARO pieces like a Kamau or Nisse.
    You can even use Cybermask to get into position without risking to get shot,
    and to benefit from surprise shot as well, even though it will cost you 3 orders to do so...
     
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  17. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    Aelis is super good in spiral, its true. But the sukeul FO can do more objectives (3 for veteran troop, 3 for forward observer, and 1 for d-charges Vs 3 for hacking, 1 for sensor, and 1 for d-charges), and can carry symbiomates/bombs and has two wounds, for about the same amount of points. The kumotail can also do more, due to having doctor/engineer. The taqeul and gao-rael can do the same number of objectives as her (the taquel has: 3 for CoC, 1 for medium infantry, 1 for bugs acting like FO on hit. The gao-rael has: 3 for elite troop, 1 for medium infantry, 1 for msv2).

    Odds are yer gonna have at least sensor/msv2 and forward observer covered, so really what shes bringing you in vanilla is the ability to do data scan and espionage, where you hafta consider: is it better to bring her or two kamael hackers. Bringing two kamael hackers gives you a higher chance of completing those missions, as you can deploy one on each of you flanks and therefore have better coverage, but aelis also lets you have sensor in a triad, and better guns.

    I think for spiral shes an auto include for any mission with 2+ secret objectives, but in vanilla she is not really worth the points, and is more of a fun piece you take just to be different. Which sucks, really, cause she used to be so cool.
     
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  18. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Remember that Aelis is a veteran troop too, at least this season.
     
  19. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    I totally forgot that, dayummm
     
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  20. Khalipo

    Khalipo Active Member

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    I tried again the same combo: nikoul + statuscloud.

    This time I faced an HMG Intruder so again not the ideal match-up. I'll keep testing it.