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Tohaa Trident: Operations Manual

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by TheRedZealot, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Tohaa players have faced some major changes in the last year or so. Without the illustrious @Magonus to guide us @borings, @RobertShepherd, @TheRedZealot & @WaywardSeeker got together to review the units available to us. You'll find a brief review of our play styles, a composite review and individualized review of each unit available to Tohaa and Spiral below.

    Play Styles


    “Melee Swarm” - Boring's Playstyle
    I prefer lists that are running a minimum of 19 orders. Tohaa has some of the most points efficient units in the game, and this strategy really lets them shine. Having such a plethora of orders allows me to spend around 20-30 orders positioning/killing things, and another 20-30 orders just doing objectives over the course of a game. Makauls are really the backbone of this strategy, hence the melee part of the swarm. Most of the units I like are pretty fragile, so this is not a list for people that like to set up to take AROs. The upside of that though is that the aros the list can take are usually templates, which can be rough for a lot of reasons.

    Often the flow for swarm involves a first turn with a rush towards the other side of the table, followed by two turns of doing objectives. Think of it as a wave of shock troops sent to dishearten and disorient the enemy. My opponents often talk about ways to “weather the storm” during my first turn. Pretty much the only thing stopping melee swarm from getting anywhere on the table in the first turn are a ton of camo markers, or a very well positioned swiss guard.

    Pros:
    • Makauls are point for point the best melee in the game
    • Nothing sees through eclipse smoke, so nothing can stop you from getting to melee
    • Attacking with b2 or b3 in melee critting on 18+ means bad crits are way less likely to stop your plans
    • Enough orders to kill important targets (think specialists or Lts) and still do the mission
    • Games are often blowouts, it is very hard to position well against this type of list

    Cons:
    • Only really brings one or two shooters, so shooting isn't really a great option
    • Also usually only brings a few units that can actually do the mission
    • Can occasionally have a hard time against camo or TO camo units that are played defensively
    • Actually runs out of command tokens pretty quickly, most games they will all be gone by turn 2

    “Modular Composition” - Rob's Playstyle
    I tend to build lists compartmentally, out of ‘modules' I've thought about or played previously. In Tohaa, this often means I have particular triad setups that I favour, but it also means I look to synergies between units that I can slot into any list. I favour medium to high order counts, and am one of the few Tohaa players who just doesn't use Sukeuls all that much.

    In general, my lists tend toward robust, defensible backbones that are hard to attack into and from which I can launch small, mobile attacks to make value trades. This tends to work to draw the enemy in toward the middle of the table but not all the way to my deployment zone, and which point the offensive close quarters attacks of mixed triads and makauls comes into their own to establish a decisive attrition advantage that I can leverage to coast to scenario wins.

    “The Swiss Army Knife” - TRZ's Playstyle
    I favour diverse and multi-use units. I value redundancy and diversity in unit skill sets. The more control and choice I have over the units I employ to solve a problem the better. As a result tools that misdirect and confuse go up in value in my books. If I can play a shell game that makes my opponent question what the hell is going on I feel like I'm at a major advantage.

    Pros -
    • Overlapping options increases order efficiency
    • Redundant uses reduce the impact of crits

    Cons -
    • I lack some of the hitting power of some of the best in class units.
    • Games may end up closer than in other play styles.

    “The All Comer Lists” - Wayward's Playstyle
    I - like TRZ - favor a diverse skill set of units that typically round out into 13 to 16 order lists. Where I differ is I like to kill stuff. Lots of stuff and fast. My lists tend to be more towards that bent with less static ARO pieces with the hope that I can reduce my opponents order pool and thus options after turn 1. As such highly mobile units like the preceptor and Igao (Mobile for Infiltration) are staples in many of my lists.

    I try to run at least 3 triads in group one with the option in group 2 for better order efficiency and the ability to mix and match them on the fly. I like to bring at least 1 viral weapon and 2 5 dice with triad weapons.

    My role most often is to help my mates here with tournament prep so I will occasionally give them nightmare lists for a specific objective (Shout out to Wake the Ghost who finished 3rd at rumble this year and Top Shelf who finished in the top 20).

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    Vanilla Units


    [​IMG]
    Aida Swanson
    Assessment:
    Overwhelmingly Negative.
    Overall: We all felt that Aida was a fun unit but she struggles to find a place in Tohaa where other options over shadow the suite of abilities she brings.

    Borings' Thoughts: Aida is not that great. Slightly better at shooting than a clipsos, but only mimetism and FD1. Worse at shooting than a draal, and worse at cc than an igao. I can only see taking this in gimmick lists, where i want to maximise guys who start out of the DZ.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Agree with Borings. Aida is a fun element, and it's hard to make a model built around SMGs and mimetism truly bad, but you should be able to find better options for what she does in Tohaa.
    Robert's Score: 2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: She's not a terrible unit or model. Viral mines are neat and 2 SMGs are definitely interesting. She doesn't seem to fill a direct hole but depending on meta the viral and shock weaponry could be great. I find the fluff that a shasvastii impersonating a human is somehow working with the tohaa strange.
    TRZ's Score: 1/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: With my playstyle being more straight forward she will not see much play with me. However since we are limited AVA with forward deployment mine layers of your playstyle favors those roadblocks to limit war and incursions you could set up very difficult area to traverse with up to 6 mines that can be deployed before the game starts doubly so if a dazer is deployed and the FD or infiltration units are placed in supression fire.
    Wayward's Score: 2/5


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    Chaksa Auxiliars
    Assessment:
    Overwhelming Positive.
    Overall: 10 pts for a flamethrower, sensor and baggage on a regular order are hard to turn down. YMMV on the Neurocinetics and Smart Rocket launcher variants however.

    Borings' Thoughts: the baggage profile is the one i'm rating so highly. The nuerocinetics is fun, but got wayyyy overshadowed by the points drop that everyone else's tr bots got in the change from v2 to v3. By that i mean, whereas every other aro hmg pieces saw their price drop from ~35 to ~25, the chaksa hmg stayed at 25. I really don't see how these guys are costed the same. They can't go double unconscious, they can't get marksmanship, and worst they are b1 on active turn, so they can't really ever be moved. The only advantage they have is they can't be hacked, and they can go prone. I don't see tr bots getting hacked a lot, and you want your aro pieces to see as much as possible, so prone isn't great. The other guy, he seems like a waste of time. If you want to do missile spam, play an army that actually has missiles. The baggage guy tho, he is bread and butter for swarm. Cheap orders? Yes!, 4 baggage guys for missions with points? Yes! Coordinated move and sensor to reveal any unit that has superior infiltrated? Yes! We have the best baggage guys. Use them.
    Borings' Score: 5/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Chaksa with heavy flamethrowers are your backbone unit for any medium- to high-order count list. Three or four of them are a comfortable include in any list, where they can be set watching close approach angles into your deployment zone and forgotten about - up until you play a JSA player, at which point coordinating the forward to do sensor sweeps becomes an invaluable tactical tool. A boring but practical unit that scores highly simply because you'll need them in just about any list you write.
    Robert's Score: 4.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Sensor Baggage is excellent, one of the best cheap orders you can buy. The Smart Rockets have some interesting uses both as a cheap rocket launcher and with PheroBoosters as an active turn piece. Neurocinetics can make for some gimmicky lists.
    TRZ's Score: 3.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: With the addition of the special triad in spiral you almost have to take 2 in every list. Cheap regular orders are difficult to come by in that list and it is one of our 2 sources of sensor which is so valuable at clearing minefields (also can shoot a pistol at -3 out to 24 with triangulated fire which can help clear out those Camo tokens). In vanilla tohaa their biggest issue was order inefficiency but that was solved with the special triad in Spiral.

    Neurocinetics with HMG is fine but we typically have better ARO options that can be used in the active turn. Helots are probably better and cheaper but it is possible with the Total Immunity buff they may see more play if you have to throw a lot of damage 15 dice at something.

    Smart Rocket Launcher is a fun idea with the addition of the pherobooster and an assault hacker but it is so order inefficient that rarely seems worth the effort. You can always make a fun list with it and it might be fun to do a coordinated order with guided ammo x4 but not particularly practical.
    Wayward's Score: 5/5


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    Chaksa Long Arms
    Assessment:
    Overwhelmingly Negative.
    Overall: We all struggled to find something to do with these guys. If you're a Chaksa fan, sorry we couldn't figure it out.

    Borings' Thoughts: Woof. These guys are only playable in spiral. Even then they don't seem to have that great a time. Don't bring these in vanilla. Just… no
    Borings' Score: 0/5

    Robert's Thoughts: if Corvus Belli ran a design contest for people to build intentionally bad profiles with as little internal synergy between weapons, stats and abilities as possible, with prizes for the worst three submissions… Longarms wouldn't even win that. They'd come a disappointing fourth. The entire Spiral release would have been better served if these hadn't been in it, because they disappointed people a lot.
    Robert's Score: 1/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: 2 Pulzar, Contender and E/M Grenades is a moderately interesting tool box. The rest are pretty unappealing. If you absolutely need to have an autocannon but refuse to acknowledge TAK or Morats it definitely exists.
    TRZ's Score: 1/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Definitely disappointing in the profiles, I keep hoping they will release pheroware that let's us buff chaska but alas let's talk real world applications. These are terrible aro pieces. Literally anything else is better in both vanilla and spiral. You “could” make a viable list around them that uses a pherobooster to paint targets and have the Haris as a mobile attack piece that shoots on 14s. Other than that hard pass.
    Wayward's Score: 2/5


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    Chaksa Servants
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: They're Doctor bots and they have some nice upsides to robo doctor bots. Just remember they're tall like people.

    Borings' Thoughts: Just like how we have the best baggage guys, we have the best helper bots. Run one sometime, and just have it stand out in the open somewhere. If your opponent shoots at it once, it has already earned it's points. If you can dodge with it, even better. Super fun for distraction pieces. Prollem is bringing them makes their master not be able to be in fireteams or coordinated orders. If i could bring these alone as units that didn't even generate an order, i would.
    Borings' Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Probably the best helper bots in the game at being roadblocks/annoyances. Good dodges, mimetism and Hyperdynamics? Yum.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Cheap helper bot that makes our doctor extremely effective. Mimitism and hyper dynamics make them tougher than you might expect. Great at clearing mines or as Borings said eat an enemy order. I am typically not inclined to bring doctors in my lists but if you do bring several. AVA 4 is also grossly underrated.
    Wayward's Score: 5/5 if you play a doc or engineer.


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    Cube Jager
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: The Cube Jager's value seems to hinge on how much you value his tool box profile. If you like diverse skill sets this guy might be a good option for you.

    Borings' Thoughts: He's an irregular merc that isn't mcmurroughs. Possibly playable on missions where you really want a paramedic to be in the midfield, but even then you will prolly be better served by putting a sakiel paramedic in a triad for 2 more points. Or if you are point starved, a kamael paramedic for 4 less points.
    Borings' Score: 2/5
    Robert's Thoughts: I have consistent bad luck with the Jaeger, which doesn't really reflect the cheap and effective utility of a specialist with airborne infiltration and a decent little weapon loadout. It's worth noting in Tohaa that a paramedic actually might be a viable doctor option if you're desperate, with most models being revivable on 10s or so thanks to either high PHY or symbioarmour.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Hes basically a tomcat. Now if I had to choose between a tomcat and the Jaeger I'd probably say the Jaeger isn't as good. But since we dont have that problem hes an inexpensive AD troop that brings Paramedic and an interesting weapon loadout. Sniping HI/TAGs in the back with the E/Miter from outside of 8” is a real possibility and can be a big turning point in a game.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: I tend to dislike Drop troops not as order efficient as a infiltrating camo unit but in something like supplies where you can choose where to place them later in the game could be beneficial. So a 19 point specialist you can put anywhere is decent. In a more general list you have better slightly more expensive options in the greif operator's, imposters, and clipsos.
    Wayward's Score: 2/5


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    Draal Saboteurs
    Assessment:
    Overwhelming Positive
    Overall: The Draal are really good. They win gunfights, they lock down board zones and they push buttons. They're as close as Infinity gets to a must take.

    Borings' Thoughts: Draal are complicated guys. They are really great, but they have a pretty steep learning curve. I would suggest running some antennae based objective games with the dazer profile to get a handle on dazers. They run well with a triad of two makaul, running across the field and dropping dazers behind them. Just make sure you don't need to get where the dazers are with guys other than clipsos/sukeul, cause the dazers really bog things down. Stratuscloud seems like it is best turned on at the start, to save you an order later. Also, if you lose the symbioarmor before you activate it, you lose your chance.I am not a fan of the minelayer option, dazers offer much stronger and longer lasting field control than mines.
    Borings' Score: 4/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Draal are the big winners of this expansion. Stratuscloud is a completely new ability that has some fascinating synergies with other Tohaa models, and can be bought as cheaply as 30/0 points with a very attractive midfield skirmisher specialist attached. I favour running one in a triad with two Makauls, who you can always let off the leash for a turn to use their impetuous orders to catch up, but the Draal will fit in a lot of lists either alone or in relatively varied triads.
    Robert's Score: 4.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Never underestimate how much faster 6-2 is compared to 4-4. My only complaint about these guys is AVA 1. You get a solid 2 wound specialist with good gear options. That deploys aggressively and will win you gunfights. The stars also align quite nicely for them to come in to reinforce depleted triads mid game and mid field.
    TRZ's Score: 5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: As far as I am concerned every list should have a draal in it. Very capable gun fighter that buffs our MSV troops and triads by basically giving everyone mimetism (watch out for templates!). This unit regardless of load out can give you an extreme early advantage in board presence and allowing you to dictate where you want your opponent to go though dazers or mines.
    Wayward's Score: 5/5


    [​IMG]
    Greif Operators
    Assessment:
    Slightly Positive.
    Overall: We all valued the Greif higher than the Kiuutan Imposter. If you want an impersonator this is the one. It also has a lot of value as a mid field camo sweeper, you brought sensor Chaksa right?

    Borings' Thoughts: Essentially a better version of the imposter for killing things that can be problematic for swarm lists, for the sole reason that it has msv1. The impersonation profile is best, if only because it lets you deploy pretty much wherever you want. Prolly not worth going for the roll, but deploying up to dz, especially on higher ground can be strong. Hold it in reserve, and put it somewhere that it can discover some camo markers. Best played in missions where you are just trying to kill stuff, as it can't really score points otherwise.
    Borings' Score: 3/5

    Robert's Thoughts: the Greif is an interesting profile, and well worth experimenting with. The combination of kits gives it some unique options as a counter-skirmisher, with my preferred use being as a pseudo-superior infiltrator playing to catch enemies in the midfield by deploying behind them, but the marksman and combi mimetism profiles are both fine profiles if struggling to compete with a clipsos. I recommend trying them out regardless, because the gap between them and their competition isn't so huge as to render them obsolete, and the combination of mimetism, a visor and the marksman rifle especially might make it an effective model to spend a few orders from your smaller second combat group.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: These guys are one of the major win profiles from the rest of the update to me. You've got a unit that fills the anti camo skirmisher role (Mimetism profiles) or that can apply a very aggressive dosage of damage to fragile backfielders (impersonation). It helps to make Triadless Tohaa a very competitive option.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Not a bad camo hunter that can be placed anywhere and dictate engagements. The most versatile profile taking is impersonation as you can pull impetuous warbands into LOF of your ARO pieces which can destroy a warbands game plan. Bottom line is that it is something your opponent will have to deal with and a unit with msv1 mimetism and suppression fire outside their deployment zone (doable with FD2 and a few orders) will severely limit their options.
    Wayward's Score: 3/5


    [​IMG]
    Hatail Aelis Keesan
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: Keesan brings a wide toolset but has a proportionally high price tag. She might be worth it but you're going to have to plan around having her and using her.

    Borings' Thoughts: oh how the mighty have fallen. Back in ye olden days, aelis was bread and butter for tohaa. She was a specialist with a cool gun, with an interesting suite of abilities. Pretty much an auto include in any tournament list. As the pool of available units grew, she sadly fell into obscurity. Even with the somewhat recent rebuild of her she didn't really become more playable. I guess she is still fun for people feeling nostalgic or who want to try to make a bad unit relevant. Bringing a hacker with no repeater network means you are hacking on your opponents terms, i.e. not a great idea.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: I think this one is more of a sleeper than people realize. The biggest restricting factor in making Keesan good is being stuck in the mindset that she has to be in a triad. Keesan brings decent weapons, a marker state, specialist abilities and sensor. I'm a big fan of toolboxes and Keesan is a quite an interesting one. She alone can feasibly fulfill 8/20 of the classified objectives. (PS: Triangulated Fire exists and can be used to good effect).
    TRZ's Score: 3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: I love Aelis. She is the multi-tool in a army that prioritizes versatility and adaptability. She is expensive and fragile but can bring so much utility to your army. A one of the few sources of viral in Spiral, the other sensor that can take full advantage of triangulated fire (I have used it though nimbus smoke and it is GREAT) able to be part of a triad for order efficiency. With all that said I do struggle finding a place for her at times due to her cost.
    Wayward's Score: 3.9/5


    [​IMG]
    Kaauri Sentinels
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: The 12 point Kaauri is a big hit. They make an excellent additional order sources once you've exhausted your Chaksa and Makaul AVA.

    Borings' Thoughts: My rating is for the 12 pt version. The other ones seem cute, but the loadout for the 12 point is one of the most optimized in the game. For my playstyle, these are the best aro pieces. SSL2 means no tricks work on them, and they can be in suppressive and respond to shots from outside LoF. Also, they have structure, so that's weird.
    Borings' Score: 5/5

    Robert's Thoughts: A thoroughly serviceable unit with an impressive amount of utility and a great ARO presence if you can drop them into suppressive fire, that are nevertheless overshadowed by Chaksa baggage auxiliars who have bigger flamethrowers and cost less. These have a space in a list that's aiming for truly high order counts, but otherwise are just an upgrade of opportunity.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: This is a unit where I can look at every profile and think “Yeah maybe that fits in a list”. The problem I have with them is trying to find a place to fit the Kaauri when I'm already trying to take so many other things to make a list work. Nimbus zones are amazing against links and important to the general tohaa game plan. If you don't have another source this little guy makes for a good one.
    TRZ's Score: 3.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: If I am ever concerned about an impersonation marker I bring 2. For 12 points and S1 they are great as just a roadblock that must be dealt with. The boarding shotgun can make for a much more offensively minded player. We probably have better options in spiral with the Helots as strict ARO pieces but don't sleep on the AP ammo for the SMG. It can ruin a HIs day and allows them to punch up from their weight class. Downside is no triad option.
    Wayward's Score: 4/5


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    Kaeltar Specialists
    Assessment:
    Positive
    Overall: Symbiomates may have gotten weaker but over all the Kaeltar brings a pretty unique suite of skills to help reinforce any Tohaa army. Though no longer a must take they are still very much in the game.

    Borings' Thoughts: With the nerf to mates, and the influx of new units, the kaeltar are no longer auto-include. Which is great really. Having more viable options means your opponents might not know exactly what yer bringing. Id say bring if you want an aggressive Lt., like the sukeul or rasail, or if you wanna goof around with bombs. Also, now my opponents can't complain about broken mates anymore.
    Borings' Score: 3/5

    Robert's Thoughts: despite the changes, Symbiomates are powerful tohaa elements that offer impressive consistency to tohaa players. While double chain of command Kaeltar is no longer near-mandatory in a competitive list, it's still viable and effective and I'm happy to include them. Mostly the only thing squeezing them out is the new Spiral import pieces, and for a list that's less experimental and more practical I'll definitely have at least one set of Symbiomates, and often still two (and if not, bombs are well worth the very low cost of inclusion).
    Robert's Score: 4/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: My personal opinion is any skill which I have no control over is probably not a good one. Mates are now one of those skills and I have trouble justifying them. Bombs are interesting but the main reasons to bring bombs in my books both now reside on the Kriigel. I'd recommend just upgrading to an unlimited source of those Pherowares personally. One exception is the Gorgos if you're running the Gorgos you definitely want a bomb.
    TRZ's Score: 2/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Some could even argue that the Total Immunity from a mate now is a Buff as now a ML or autocannon crit won't basically destroy that expensive ARO peice. Chain of command is always welcome and I for one liked taking Bombs as they provide versatility to an already versatile army. Isolate that pain train link leader? Yes please. Yes a kriigel can do it more often but they are more fragile as they bomb dictates unjust have symbioarmour. They can also be a flash pulse dick at burst 2 in a triad. The CoC can be a button pusher in a pinch as well.
    Wayward's Score 4/5


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    Kamael Light Infantry
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: They're line troops they do line trooper things well. It's hard to say much more.

    Borings' Thoughts: Line troops. Mebbe not the best, definitely not the worst. Almost always a better choice, unless you really need a ton of specialists. Spiral really wants these guys, and it kinda sucks they aren't in there.
    Borings' Score: 3/5

    Robert's Thoughts: with so many good triad fillers and better, cheaper order pieces, the only value offered by Kamael is that they offer the cheapest lieutenant in Tohaa. In this role they excel, but there's very little use case for any of the other profiles. A minor edge case might exist for the white hacker in any mission with a hacker bonus and a xenotech, and while I like the idea of TRZ's triple sniper defensive triads, I've never been able to source to models to make this work.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: They're filler, they do fillery things well. 3 Sniper defensive Triad is one of the most interesting options for them in my books. One day maybe we'll see the WHD drop to 0 SWC. WHD is good if you want to run a bunch of Gao Tarsos though.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Cheap specialists with good WIP that can be in a triad. Passively buffs the heavy hitters though a triad. They are fine, just fine. Surprisingly I find myself missing them in Spiral.
    Wayward's Score: 3.5/5


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    Kerail Preceptors
    Assessment:
    Slightly Positive.
    Overall: Sorry Mutan's, Surda profiles are the big winner for the Kerail. Cost and size can lend some problems to the Perceptors but they can be a powerful force multiplier when fit into the right army. The only MSV2 Smoke trick source in Vanilla.

    Borings' Thoughts: I'll be honest, i've literally never used these guys. I can't get over the fact that the beasts have super jump but the handler doesn't, so they don't really have super jump. Even if they did all have super jump, I'd have a prollem bringing them at their points cost, and the footprint they take up in an already crowded DZ. I guess bring if you want to shoot things through smoke, but that's not swarm strategy. If you want to kill with melee, makauls are better for less points.
    Borings' Score: 1/5

    Robert's Thoughts: while only the Surda profiles are viable, these profiles are excellent. They fit into Tohaa in a couple of different ways, firstly as part of a wound spam strategy (a preceptor with one or two surdabeasts brings a huge weight of wounds relative to their cost), and secondly as a trooper capable of filling the warband role in Tohaa where all your makauls are linked. A surdabeast is one of the best models in the game for blitzing through an enemy minefield to open an attack path for triads, and then follow up as a very viable close quarters attack option if you don't want to risk whole triads. You'll never go wrong including these in anything except a Borings style list that can't afford the sacrifice of points needed to fill out order pools.
    Robert's Score: 4/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: This is one of the units I think I've used the least. But I think they're good. They're a solid source of smoke, they bring disposable dogged DTWs. You're paying basically 20-25pts for 4 wounds. Physical size is their biggest restraining factor.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: I love this model. In vanilla our only source of smoke (phys 11 sucks but meh) and the dogs are surprisingly good. You can force bad engagement s and slap a bomb on the handler to make it more (you guessed it) versatile. The shooty dogs are hot garbage. In spiral they are again a cheap source of smoke that can do more than just that. You can alpha strike with then pretty easily and I always used to have them be the odd man out in my main combat group as I would have 3 triads and one troop as the 10th.
    Wayward's Score: 4/5


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    Kiuutan Imposters
    Assessment:
    Negative.
    Overall: They're the worst Impersonators in the game. The Greif makes these a hard sale.

    Borings' Thoughts: Essentially a sakiel that you pay almost double the price to be able to put anywhere on the map. In a swarm list, just not worth it. If you want a sakiel somewhere, drag it across the field in a triad. Or, better yet, play better troops in a triad and have a better chance at doing things. Might be playable in decap, if your opponent is playing a Lt. that can be killed by a lone sakiel.
    Borings' Score: 1/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Much the same as a Greif impersonator, Kiuutans work best when you leverage their positional advantage to catch enemies unaware or out of cover rather than try to take even gunfights with your extremely stock BS12 combi rifle. While they can be deployed with a bomb if your forsake the marker state, I advise against this except in meme lists because it means the Kiuutan can't be your reserve model, and it really wants to be your reserve model. A Kiuutan that your opponent sees coming is easy to counter-deploy against.
    Robert's Score: 2.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: They're no Fiday and they're no Speculo. They're definitely not terrible. But if I have the option between this and Greif, the Greif costs me less and does pretty much the same job of bullying one or two back fielders before it dies. In Spiral his E/M Weapon options make this guy more interesting but still nothing shockingly good.
    TRZ's Score: 2/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: It is a free 5 points in decap. I like the e/m additions in the profile. It is expensive but again makes your opponent deal with them. Place them up high in total cover and then pop out with a surprise shot. Can also force impetuous troops to run where maybe they do not want to be.
    Wayward's Score: 2.5/5


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    Kosuil Assault Pioneers
    Score: Slightly Negative
    Overall: Profiles aren't terrible but a high price tag and a slightly clunky set of profiles make them a low priority.

    Borings' Thoughts: weird unit, it kinda obsoleted aelis, but then immediately got obsoleted by the sukeul FO. If he were a doctor, this would be a 4/5 or 5/5. Engineers tho? No use. Kaauri and Reex are the only guys with structure, and spending orders to revive them is almost always gonna be a waste. And for some reason everyone else has d-charges, so why bring this guy? Mebbe he has good guns?
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: They're definitely not bad. There's nothing overly remarkable about them one way or the other if I'm being honest.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: if you need an engineer bring a kumotail. No SWC minelayer is good but they are expensive for what they do. Can be a good ARO piece with panzerfaust. I have never been able to fit them in my list. Cool looking model though.
    Wayward's Score: 2/5


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    Kotail Mobile Unit
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: They've got a pretty unique set of abilities but they're expensive and can be fragile. So you need to plan around a Kotail and making the most out of its abilities.

    Borings' Thoughts: pure gimmick model. 3/5 in missions with exclusion zones where you wanna run in and hit a button or whatever. Most mobile unit we have, but a bit too fragile for me, and turns into a bad line troop after it takes a hit.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    Robert's Thoughts: as a general rule, I love 6-4 attack pieces in any faction. The kotail is held back only by comparison with the preceptors who are more dangerous, more resilient and have additional utility for fewer points. The value from these guys therefore tends to come from how effectively you're able to combine super jump with a viable medium-weight gunfighting platform. If you've got an eye for the angles these open up, and especially if you're able to use Holoprojector's weak pseuo-marker state protection to close gaps, Kotail are a fun and unique element worth experimenting with.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Super Jump is one of the only rules in this game that consistently seems to end up busted no matter what they do. Creative use of Holo2, 1 or 2+1 are recommended when using this bad boy. Learning to manage your holoprojections is important as well to minimize the chances of a catastrophic template ending you. Dual Combi or FO would be the go to profiles. You get yourself a fast durable specialist with a decent weapons load out. Of note is the ability to Suppressive fire behind a building then shuffle your Echos after the fact and end up peeking an exposed corner in suppression.
    TRZ's Score: 3.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: I want to like this Model. Holo echoes, 6 - 4 movement good weapon load outside, superjump are all excellent that will allow you to attack from multiple angles. I just never seem to be able to find a place for them. Holo echos can clear mines very well also. As I am writing this I need to build more lists with him. I just usually have the preceptor fill his role for the smoke.
    Wayward's Score: 2.5/5


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    Krakot Renegades
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: The only thing that holds the Krakot back in Tohaa is access to Makauls and other cheap order filling models. That being said they're still a valuable option.

    Borings' Thoughts: He seems fine. I will occasionally run this guy over a makaul if my triad numbers are weird.
    Borings' Score:3/5

    Robert's Thoughts: don't underestimate the attack and defence potential of the chain rifle or SMG profiles. Simple and effective, krakots are low-cost addition that can sometimes pull some impressive moves thanks to their metachemistry and cheap but effective weapons. Especially if your opponents like playing smoke and mirror games against you, dangerous and disposable elements are just what you want. They overlap with Preceptors slightly in terms of both cost and role, trading out the true disposability of the surdabeast for the independence of forward deployment and an impetuous order.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Metachemistry and Berserk are both under priced and highly effective. Plus you can get PH 16 Grenades. Not a must take but certainly a useful tool to have access to.
    TRZ's Score:3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: seems ok. The very impetuous with no smoke could take some finesse. The 2 chain rifles is the best profile. Spec fire grenades in 13s with a good meta roll sure. Assault that link team leader? Go for it. Overall we have better tools at our disposal for what it does.
    Wayward's Score: 2/5


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    Kriigel Agents
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: Kriigel bring a super jammer, they bring anti MSV tricks and they fill in Triads. They're good.

    Borings' Thoughts: The more I play this guy, the more I love it in swarm. The only jammer style unit that can be in a fireteam (that i know of) means this is the most mobile jammer, especially with eclipse smoke. Drag it across the table with some makauls, eraser in your enemies dz can be really crippling. They are currently one of our best ways to deal with fireteams on your opponent's side. Phero booster seems ok, prolly only worth using on guys that can't shoot back, as you are gambling a lot to take those shots. I really wish pheroware tactics gave the person specialist (which it should, these are tohaa's hacker alternates after all), or that they were a few points cheaper.
    Borings' Score:5/5

    Robert's Thoughts: While I agree entirely with Borings' comments, I'd add that I think the Kriigel is balanced for his cost. Eraser alone is worth the price of admission, but you are paying to bring what is essentially a good line infantryman along with a triad. I like Kriigel a lot, but the cost means you need to think about how you're including them to maximise their value.
    Robert's Score: 3.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: The general expensiveness of everything nice in Tohaa is the only thing that makes these guys bad. That being said Eraser and Mirroball are both game-changing abilities that should be a top consideration in any list.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: while expensive is another source of smoke. Pherobooster has a nice range band and hits surprisingly hard. Needs to be positioned well for area denial. I this this unit and the Draal both benefit immensely from Tri-core. I love the idea of isolating people with double trouble ammo with burst 2 in active, just remember isolated is not dead and dead is almost always better. On a side note a surprisingly cheap triad with the reex. To allow for great movement and positioning.
    Wayward's Score: 4/5


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    Kumotail Bioengineers
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: Between being a faction that's generally fighting to use every point perfectly and doctor bots not playing nice with links the Kumotail is often neglected for other triad specialists. But they aren't bad.

    Borings' Thoughts: Perfectly reasonable doctor/engineer. Sadly not as good as a sakiel paramedic in a triad. Being an engineer is a holdover from n2, when you couldn't doctor symbioarmor models unless you also had engineer. This unit wants a price drop, or for engineer to be taken off
    Borings' Score: 3/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Perfectly serviceable but just expensive enough to be hard to fit easily. It's very common for tohaa troops to end up unconscious rather than dead thanks to symbioarmour, but at 22pts the good doctor/engineer is just a bit too hard to easily fit into a list.
    Robert's Score: 2.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Doctor/Engineer is nice for classifieds. Definitely not a bad unit but again in Tohaa alot of the time you're cutting the fat on your support pieces to try and fit in more of your primary units. I often find these guys cut down to cheaper specialist options. It's worth remembering that Chaksa are probably the best servant bot in the game, you just have to put up with your Kumotail not playing nice with Links.
    TRZ's Score: 2.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: I tend not to bring doctors or engineers in my list unless the mission is Hunting Party. In my play experience if my guys are dying I have more immediate concerns that will require my orders. Also the +3 phys buff symbioarmour makes paramedics more viable.
    Wayward's Score: 3/5


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    Libertos Freedom Fighters
    Assessment:
    Mostly Positive.
    Overall: If you're trying to maximize your orders the Libertos might not fit into your lists. If you're not then the Libertos is an inexpensive Camo troop that generally punches above its weight. If you aren't considering it you're probably doing yourself a disservice.

    Borings' Thoughts: these guys are prolly really great, but running melee swarm means you need as many regular orders as possible. I could possibly see running minelayer in a list where you already have 20+ orders, like in the third pool.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Mrrlglglglgl. In a non-Borings style list that expects to play on the offence and defence with a mix of guns and melee, a Libertos is one of the best 8-10 points you can spend as a Tohaa player. They make an excellent reserve drop if you're not running an impersonator and I have one in almost every list. Minelayer profile strongly preferred unless I'm absolutely strapped for SWC.
    Robert's Score: 5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Super super interesting for playing around with shell games and general misdirection and confusion for your opponent. If you want to lean into Holo, and Camo games these guys are amazing. Otherwise you get a rock solid camo unit.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: A cheap minelayer with FD lvl 2, Camo, and Dogged. Excellent for the cost. I do struggle with mine placement and it does not favor my prefered play style as thus I do struggle to find a place for him. Will probably be overshadowed by the Helots in Spiral. I do not mind the irregular order as I find it difficult to spend command tokens in vanilla Tohaa.


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    Nikoul Ambush Unit
    Assessment:
    Mostly Negative.
    Overall: The Nikoul gets alot of deployment options with Sapper but a high price tag and the increasing presence of BTS made most of us second guess it.

    Borings' Thoughts: in my opinion, our best long range aro piece. Sapper is so good especially if you keep this guy as a reserve unit. Sadly for swarm you cant really afford pieces that don't run across the field.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Nikoul are one of my favourite units, and their position has been cemented in my lists thanks to defensive synergy with the Draal. Sapper is an immensely flexible rule on these models and lets them reliably deploy incredibly far back - often literally on the back of the table - to truly maximise the range bands of their sniper rifles. My nikoul has multiple fully-linked Tanko kills to his name thanks to engagements happening at 41-42”, and your average enemy HMG attacking into a Nikoul at that range, in sapper, behind a stratuscloud is copping a casual -12 to hit on top of the saturation penalty.
    Robert's Score: 4/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: In an era of increasing BTS values and reduced Mate effectiveness I think the Nikoul is not as good as it once was. Definitely a good unit but It's not as fire and forget as it could be before. Well worth considering. A trio of plain Kamael snipers is 18 pts more than the minelayer and both can make for obnoxious ARO's.
    TRZ's Score: 2.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Probably will be out striped by the Gao-real and Taagma. The nice thing is you can properly position him at a far table edge and essentially out range anything. It annoys me that he is vulnerable to smoke and white noise making him easier to walk past than the aforementioned units.
    Wayward's Score: 2/5


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    Reex Escorts
    Assessment:
    Overwhelmingly Negative.
    Overall: They probably have a small role in Spiral but the rest of the time there are other options.

    Borings' Thoughts: I dunno. Are you maxed out on kaauri and want another guy with structure for some reason? That seems to be the only appeal of these guys. I'm quite certain they exist so that tohaa players can no longer complain that they are the only army that cannot get marksmanship. Mebbe they are playable in spiral, it's pretty unclear.
    Borings' Score: 0/5

    Robert's Thoughts: They make pretty good Kauuri proxies. Without being linkable in Tohaa, don't use them until you're at max AVA of a lot of other models.
    Robert's Score: This Is A Spiral Corps Unit

    TRZ's Thoughts: I spent some time trying to figure out how these guys might be useful. They're not the cheapest friends for a Kriigel, they don't really bring interesting weapons. If they had viral pistols like the previews the Marksman might have been an interesting choice for its super heavy duty pistol.
    TRZ's Score: 0/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: In spiral they are great order filler and roadblocks to guard your kriigel. BS 11 seems much better with a close up boarding shotgun. If your list in bringing 2 Kriggles then you should bring 2 rexx to fill out the order pool. Spiral struggles with Triad Filler so take it where you can get it.
    Wayward's Score: Vanilla 0/5. Spiral 2/5


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    Rasail Boarding Team
    Assessment:
    Mostly Positive.
    Overall: While too costly for order spam lists, the Rasail are generally durable and effective in killing. Well worth considering for your active turn piece.

    Borings' Thoughts: Way too inefficient for a swarm list. You want triads to run across, not lone dudes with little buddies. If there was a specialist version, mebbe, but even then I'd prolly take a kotail over it, just for mobility. People say i'm crazy for liking the taqeul over this unit
    Borings' Score: 1/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Rasail are another piece that slots into the tohaa wound spam strategy, bringing an impressive four wounds (with the chaksa) for less than forty points. I favour the combi and mine profile because I like being able to spend the lieutenant order to lay mines if I'm not using it otherwise, and also frankly because I'm a cheap bastard, but all the lieutenant profiles are viable.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Tough guy, brings a friend, good guns. The LT option is less appealing now that we're less likely to run Chain of Command but if you are or are comfortable in running that risk the LT order is a huge value on this unit that most other LTs don't get to make use of in Tohaa.
    TRZ's Score: 3.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: One of our few viable Multi-Wound roadblocks. This guy has some awesome profiles and can be difficult to dislodge if he is in the middle of the field. His Chaska buddy helps cover his flank or can put an opponent in a tough position. I would stick with the viral combi option as he wants to be in that close to mid range sweet spot and you want to be aggressive with your Chaska. Great unit to bring bombs with.
    Wayward's Score: 3.5/5


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    Sakiel Regiment
    Assessment:
    Mostly Positive.
    Overall: We've come a long way from the days of maxed AVA Sakiel lists. They're inexpensive and general bring a good suite of tools but it's hard to include more than a couple these days.

    Borings' Thoughts: Sakiel are at a weird place points wise for swarm. There are cheaper guys to be cheerleaders, and more expensive guys with better guns for killing things. The paramedic version is one of the better triad specialists for its points cost. Prior to spiral i almost always ran the paramedic, but with the kriigel and draal it is no longer making the cut.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Frenzy discount makes these guys a steal for the cost, with the only downside being that they're not truly elite. The viral sakiel is one of Tohaa's better lieutenant options (alongside the Rasail and cheap but viable Kamael) and a very serviceable gunfighter in a link, and the specialists profiles make a great addition to a close quarters makaul triad. Notable synergy with makauls lies in their nimbus plus grenades, and I think Borings should ditch the triple makaul triads for two makauls and a sakiel even if it costs him an order to do it.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Cheap, lots of good stuff. They're a premier unit for sure. Sometimes they can get a little lost in the plethora of other oddball options Tohaa have. But they're a safe reliable standard to come back to.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Cheap, awesome weapon loadouts, specialists, 2 wounds, triad. Every list should have at least 1.
    Wayward's Score: 4/5


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    Sukeul Commandos
    Asessement:
    Overwhelmingly Positive.
    Overall:

    Borings' Thoughts: The Hmg version is the best general purpose shooter in tohaa. The FO Lt. is the best general purpose Lt. for tohaa. By general purpose I mean a list you build not knowing the mission, or what type of list yer opponent is playing. The Lt. can do so many of the classified objectives, thanks to d-charges and veteran troop status. Since melee swarm is not really shooting focused, the hmg profile usually shows up as the one gun. Sukeuls like to be paired up with kriigels now, to use mirrorball for full effect, and for someone to protect them from other melee troops.
    Borings' Score:5/5

    Robert's Thoughts: I may be the only person that considers Sukeul commandos merely ok rather than high watermark in faction. For me, the changes to medium infantry and the introduction of stratuscloud have served to elevate the Gao-Rael spitfire, while the increase in linked MSV models has undermined the advantage offered by the Sukuel's mimetism. While still a highly competitive piece, I will generally look elsewhere right now outside of missions like The Grid, where the forward observer profile wins the entire game by herself.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: I took a point off because of the warping factor they've had on Tohaa as a whole. The unit is probably too good at filling the roles missing in the army.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5


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    Taagma Schemers
    Assessment:
    Overwhelmingly Positive.
    Overall: Cheap, Flexible, and with some nice special rules. They have a great home in Spiral and bring some very interesting shell games into Tohaa.

    Borings' Thoughts: Wooo counterintel! Swarm wants to go first, and it wants all the orders. For fun you can have this guy pretend to be a gao rael sniper or chaksa hmg that you place pretty poorly. Like, give it coverage, but just not a lot. This guys is great because it is cheap. Downside is that it isn't a specialist, but counterintel prolly makes up for that. Also the fact that they exist means its prolly not worth trying to strip orders from tohaa anymore, which is perfect.
    Borings' Score: 4/5

    Robert's Thoughts: A great thing about Taagma is that they'll help you whether they're in your list or not. Because you always could have counterintelligence, your opponent has a tricky decision to make if you're going first regardless of what's in your army. Personally I find them tricky to fit into triads just because I've got a bunch of setups I'm used to that don't need much changing, but there's no doubt that a Taagma is a fine buy for 16pts.
    Robert's Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: You get a guy with a breaker rifle and a nanopulser and he fits into triads for 16pts. That's already worth considering. Now he gets Holoprojector and suddenly your army of unusual combinations and potential misdirections gets everything it ever wanted and more. All his other skills are just icing on this delicious cake.
    TRZ's Score: 5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: Cheap unit with shock immune MSV2 load outs and TRICORE!. Is good in vanilla but GREAT in spiral. Gives you the option of running 2 core teams on the table with brawlers. Holo Projector adds additional protection and causes your opponent to make more choices. This is a good thing because the more choices they make the higher the likelihood they will make one that benefits you. He is fragile with no symbio armour so take care of him as an ARO piece.
    Wayward's Score: 5/5


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    Tohaa Diplomatic Delegates
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: It's a warcor but better. Don't forget Tohaa often have a surplus of Command tokens and that means the Diplomat is often a 5 pt regular order when you need it.

    Borings' Thoughts: Our beefed up version of the warcor is actually pretty good. Great weapon loadout for the price, and she can press a button. A decent option for missions where there is an objective like right next to where you start
    Borings' Score: 4/5

    Robert's Thoughts: I agree with exactly what you're about to read TRZ say.
    Robert's Score: 4/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: You have Command Tokens, and you probably don't use all of them every game. Why not get an often regular 5pt order on a specialist thats good at AROing? Almost every list starts with a diplomatic delegate in it and then maybe gets cut down.
    TRZ's Score: 4.5/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: 5 point button pusher with WIP 13 flashpulse. This is a great way to fill out any list. I love putting the xeno-tech on this guy.
    Wayward's Score: 4/5[/b]


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    Armand Le Muet, Freelance Killer
    Assessment:
    Negative.
    Overall: None of us had really found a place for Armand that other units didn't already fill better. That ITS model was slick though.

    Borings' Thoughts: My only real beef with this guy is his cost. Not playable in swarm, but i do like him in limited insertion. Seems strong for AROs paired with a draal for stratuscloud.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Hes hard to shoot. Hes two wounds and he packs a big gun. The MSV1 profile is my preference but either one can be an asset. Don't forget Mates and Bombs can party with this guy. The only real issue is his non ITS prize model is a little doofy.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5

    Wayward's Thoughts: I think the Nikoul does everything Armand does just better. If you really want ODD ok.
    Wayward's Score: 1/5


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    Gao-Rael Unit
    Score: Mostly Positive.
    Overall: If you're not concerned about the price tag the Gao Rael brings a great set of guns and MSV to the table in a linkable package. You probably want one.

    Borings' Thoughts: I stone cold never bring these guys. I get that in the current meta, they are better in some shootouts than sukeuls, but those are shootouts that swarm isn't trying to win anyways. If someone has camo or TO camo, just stab it to death, I mean, yer gonna be over there stabbing everyone anyways right? I find having a taagma schemer pretend to be a gao-rael sniper can be almost as effective as a real sniper would be, which doesn't reflect well on them as a unit.
    Borings' Score:1/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Only Borings could rate these guys low. In an era of mimetism everywhere, MSV has never been more useful. A single linked Gao-Rael sniper can keep entire armies of warband troopers honest, and a Gao-Rael spitfire fighting through either smoke or a stratuscloud is a great offensive option. While not necessary for every list thanks to Tohaa's great ability to reliably close to close range, they're a strong option and quite reasonably priced.
    Robert's Score: 3.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: They're two wound MSV models with nice weapon options. Rob got it right on the money.
    TRZ's Score: 3.5/5


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    Gao Tarsos Unit
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: We had good experiences with the unit but mixed feelings on the use of AD. Hes a good AD Choice.

    Borings' Thoughts: i brought the hmg model to a game, and killed everyone in the back line on my opponent's side. One of the most unsatisfactory games i've ever played. I feel like if this unit works, it makes you feel guilty, and if it doesn't it is a waste of points. The paramedic seems fine for some missions i guess.
    Borings' Score:2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: My favorite drop troop in the game. Two wounds mean you can get pretty aggressive with your jumps. The only downside is the lack of assisted jumps.
    TRZ's Score: 5/5


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    Taqeul Officers
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: Ok its not an allstar unit. But the Taquel brings interesting and useful skills on a body that we were surprisingly into.

    Borings' Thoughts: i have a huge crush on this troop. I really want CB to make some symbiobug models, and i want them to be cute as hell pokemans like the symbiomates/bombs. I have a big write up of this weirdo in the forums, basically it is one of our troops who is the best at not dying, which can be important.
    Borings' Score: 4/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Taquel are weird and neat. A lot of opinions about them seem to be negative but personally I think the Taquel has a spot to fill. He brings good area control, a strong LT or CoC presence and some good fire arms. The only struggle is that Tohaa is an army where every point matters and you're investing a lot of non linking points into on these guys.
    TRZ's Score: 2.5/5


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    Ectros Regiment
    Assessment:
    Negative.
    Overall: In a game where HI aren't popular putting one in a faction of 2 wound units makes them a hard sell.

    Borings' Thoughts: mebbe these guys were viable when tohaa first came out, but even with their price drop in the change to n3 the weakness to hacking just makes them not worth it. Bring a sukeul or rasail instead. I won't even play these guys in limited insertion.
    Borings' Score: 1/5

    Robert's Thoughts: While three wounds at decent ARM and good BTS is a strong heft of resilience, Ectros are often just outshone by much cheaper and nearly as effective units elsewhere in the faction. A possible niche exists for the shotgun profile, being the cheapest Ectros and able to take a corner and threaten either a B3 shotgun or a B2 nanopulser, which is a fearsome close quarters option that won't cost you a model like it would if a Makaul suicided to do the same thing.
    Robert's Score: 1.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: In an army of 2 wound infantry Ectros are the HI other armies wish they had. That being said there are other very efficient options to consider in Tohaa. Ectros fall into my “salt to taste” category of units I'll take but not usually as the basis for a list.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5


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    Keil-Saan Covert Assault Unit?1
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: They're a lot like the Ectros only they dont link and they get Meta chemistry instead. How much do you like Meta Chemistry is my question for you?

    Borings' Thoughts: Sad face emoji. I really want there to be a cc specialist with symbioarmor. This guy could've been the one. I think if it had triad, it might be playable. As it is, it's essentially a worse version of the igao for melee. As for shooting, it is outclassed by the draal and sukeul. It does have tohaa's new highest armor, if that is a thing you care about. I would say play it in games for fun. At its point cost it is really just a gamble. Some games i'm sure it will go all crazy killman, other games it will get bogged down by aros before it can do anything.
    Borings' Score: 2/5

    Robert's Thoughts: I don't mind Kiel-Saan in vanilla Tohaa. I won't use them a lot, but they're something rare in our faction: a genuinely solid bit of passable, tough, mid-range firepower for zero SWC. We're otherwise stuck between great rifle-ranged firepower, or support weapons that need to be paid for out of an SWC budget that's stretched thin for any typical list. I'd never run a Kiel-Saan in a Borings-style horde list that doesn't struggle for SWC, but you could consider either profile as an inclusion in a more traditional tohaa list that really wants more gun.
    Robert's Score: 2.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: The Keil-Sann suffers the same fate of other HI. They're big points investments and they're hard to justify. How much you like Metachemistry will make a lot of decisions for you on whether to run this guy.
    TRZ's Score: 2.5/5


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    Neema Saatar
    Assessment:
    Positive.
    Overall: Neema is an ectros with an upside. If you want an Ectros she might be a better starting point. Plus she makes a sweet LT.

    Borings' Thoughts: Neema is weird, but she is definitely still playable. I would only play her as an Lt., but we have enough CoC that she can be aggressive. She definitely has a place in spiral tho.
    Borings' Score: 3/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: In a faction with strong COC options Neema makes for a solid LT. Now that Mates aren't almost guaranteed she does loose some value. But she is one of the best Bomb carriers in the army and shes still rock solid in a triad.
    TRZ's Score: 3.5/5


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    Gorgos Squad
    Assessment:
    Negative.
    Overall: The Gorgos lost a lot with the Symbiomate changes. TAGs aren't usually considered great and the Gorgos isn't in the running for best TAG in the game.

    Borings' Thoughts: Its true, i'm a hater. About half the time i won't even run this guy in missions that want a tag, like tic tac toe. I'll just try to kill their tags instead. That being said, even with the nerf to mates this is still one of the most defensive tags in the game. Just give it a bomb and put it near a nullifier, preferably in some weird corner where people won't walk up to it. (I'm saying the best use of this troop is to never spend points on it…)
    Borings' Score: 1/5

    Robert's Thoughts: of all our models, Gorgos lost the most with the symbiomate change. Although Tohaa suffer least of any faction for spitfire-range weaponry on a TAG, the overall value offered by a Gorgos is now mostly just in their super nifty Chaksa peripheral - which is a little sad when you think about it.
    Robert's Score: 2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: If you like TAGs and understand how to use them the Gorgos is not bad. Its also not blow your mind away amazing but it does most of what it needs to. The loss of Mates to this guy is a big hit in my books, I would have rated him a 4/5. He went from being the toughest operator TAG to not. If you want to run a TAG don't listen to the haters the Gorgos will do well by you.
    TRZ's Score: 3/5


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    Clipsos Infiltrators
    Assessment:
    Overwhelmingly Positive.
    Overall: They're basically the best TO unit in the game and they have an absurd AVA 3. You probably want to own at least 3 Clipsos models if only for when you want to try hard.


    Borings' Thoughts: i want to rate these guys lower, cause they suck at killing things, and i love killing things. But they are the best at what they do, and i've won so many games because of them. The FO version is the best, minelayer is fine as well. I will on occasion run a 23 order list with these guys in group 3, bringing them in with command tokens for the last turn. Just never use them for AROs, unless the aro is to place a mine next to a 5 man that you can see on the second part of a move-move.
    Borings' Score: 5/5

    Robert's Thoughts: One of the gold standard TO camo units, rivalled only by the infiltrating Order Sergeant for sheer effectiveness. The closest thing I have to an argument against the Clipsos is that she's 25pts for one wound, which by Tohaa standards is fragile. But ignore that; she's great.
    Robert's Score: 4.5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Best TO Operator in the game. Clipsos alone open up so many fun doors for the Tohaa shell game. AVA 3 is absurd. If you're not taking at least 1 you're probably reducing your overall win percentage.
    TRZ's Score: 5/5


    [​IMG]
    Igao Unit
    Assessment:
    Mixed.
    Overall: The Igao models are stellar. Their competition on the table with the Clipsos cuts them down a notch. Remember Fury breaks Camo once its triggered in the order count phase so if you do use them you want to power through them in one glorious turn.

    Borings' Thoughts: i love the action pose polearm model for this. If it was any better it would prolly be unfair, but the best way to use them seems to just roll for infiltration, and i don't like models that only work like half the time. Really strong in tag hunting missions. Bog down a tag with a fireteam of makauls, and have the igao attack out of stealth with a b4 attack.
    Borings' Score:3/5

    Robert's Thoughts: Not a bad model by any means, but at the same price point is rivalled by the more practical clipsos. Tohaa don't struggle for melee capability on other models, so the Igao isn't actually bringing much unique to the table. For what it's worth, I prefer the the combi rifle loadout since stun grenades are occasionally very cute, and the range bands on the shotgun are a bit superfluous when you're packing melee like the Igao is.
    Robert's Score: 2/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: Igao can outfight ninja's in melee. The only downside is frenzy means he gets less good if he survives his aggression turn. HINT: Stuff him down your enemy's throat and wreak havoc. He probably won't survive the turn but he'll put in some work.
    TRZ's Score: 4/5


    [​IMG]
    Makaul Troops
    Assessment:
    Perfection.
    Overall: Makaul are one part Warband, One part Line Trooper. They're the unit that all link fillers aspire to be and they're wild cards for Tohaa. You want Makaul.

    Borings' Thoughts: The reason i play tohaa. Point for point, the best melee unit in the game. If you are like me, and you like to stab things in cyberpunk games, then makauls are the unit for you. My only complaint about them is that they seem to be undercosted, which leads to a lot of complaints from people about how broken they are. Also, with the new faq on stealth rules, can be used to kill any unit in the game regardless of their cc skills, as long as the opponent doesn't have SSL2. Running 6 in a 20 order list means they get to throw smoke to help each other advance, and potentially reach anywhere on the map the first turn.
    Borings' Score: 100 emoji

    Robert's Thoughts: the real line troop for Tohaa and an unrivaled power and utility piece. Linked eclipse smoke alone fundamentally alters the battlefield in Tohaa's favour and is the reason any Tohaa list can if they wish elect to play purely a close quarters game. They also contribute to the core triad makeup of one smoke/melee expert, one specialist and one gunfighter that forms the base operating platform for a standard tohaa list. Any triad that expects to leave the deployment zone should have at least one makaul, and any person expecting to play Tohaa should learn to use makauls. They're indispensable.
    Robert's Score: 5/5

    TRZ's Thoughts: They're cheap triad units, they bring smoke, flame throwers and stabby knives. You don't have to use them but they're real good.
    TRZ's Score: 5/5


    [​IMG]
    SPIRAL ONLY

    Coming Eventually.
     
    #1 TheRedZealot, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Marc C, Magonus, n21lv and 14 others like this.
  2. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Putting It In Action

    Borings' list 1:

    Best
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]5
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioBombs / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)

    1.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army



    This list is sort of all in on going first. The taagma pretty much has to pretend to be a kamael Lt., so that it isn't completely obvious which one your opponent has to target. The hmg triad shouldnt advance past midfield, but it should throw some smoke for the makaul triad in group one to advance in. The makaul triad should go after whatever the opponent needs to win (specialists, Lts, etc). If your opponent doesn't have any TO, and you can handle advancing in smoke well, you should be able to cripple your opponent before they have a chance to do anything. Going second, have everyone prone as far back as possible. Have the chaksa and kaauri in position so they get AROs first, preferably with DTWs. Any shooting AROs you can take should only be after your opponent has spent like 3-5 orders moving across the board. Hopefully your opponent just tries to do the mission instead of digging you out, and you can come out and kill everyone on your turn. Note: swap out the draal for a sukeul FO Lt depending on mission. You lose the taagma in that swap, but you can also trade it and the kamael for a kaeltar CoC and a diplomat.

    Borings' List 2:
    Best
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]5
    SAKIEL Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    KAMAEL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 3[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    1.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    In case you were wondering how i use clipsos, this is it. This is a good list for turn three button pushing. Just hope your opponent doesn't aggressively sensor. Or hope that if they do, they spend more orders looking for the clipsos than it is worth.



    Rob’s List:

    Rob's List
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 1 Surda SymbioBeast / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    NIKOUL Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 1 Surda SymbioBeast / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This list is built to do a couple of things that play into what I like about tohaa. Firstly, it’s massively resilient: it’s packing twenty-five wounds, plus three models with dogged, plus four symbiomates. This combines with solid reactive firepower, great corner guards, and the always reliable libertos to provide a list that can reliably endure sustained enemy attacks and continue fighting deep into the game.

    Secondly, it works to leverage the Draal’s stratuscloud offensively and defensively. On the defence, a Nikoul can sit behind a stratuscloud to offer a superlative defensive piece (ignoring the penalties from the cloud itself, and imposing further visual and burst modifiers on anyone trying to engage it). Offensively, both Makauls and the Gao-Rael Spitfire can do dangerous work engaging out of or through a stratuscloud, with the Gao-Rael in particular being some of the best anti-link firepower in the game when combined with the stratuscloud.

    Finally, it can attack very cheaply if you can’t see a position to drive a dedicated wedge into. Symbiobeasts and the libertos offer cheap, aggressive pieces that can easily be traded to establish an attrition advantage at little to no cost to the tohaa player, reinforcing the sustained attrition advantage that you want to push deep into the game.



    TRZ's List:

    TRZ's Tohaa Prototype
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KAMAEL Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    GREIF-OP (Inferior Impersonation) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1 | 21)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    SAKIEL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    KAMAEL Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)

    3.5 SWC | 242 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    TRZ's List Supplements
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    IGAO Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Stun Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    GAO-TARSOS Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    GROUP 3[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    KOTAIL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

    1.5 SWC | 171 Points

    Open in Infinity Army




    I’m packing Two lists for you guys. One of them is the sort of core foundation I would bring to the table top. I’ll tailor this sort of list here and there to better match missions that I’m expecting. The second is four supplemental sets of units. Each of these bundles packs a set of tools that I enjoy and that should look identical from my Opponent’s side of the table. Typically I’ll get aggressive with my solo pieces early and use the Triads to provide support and a defensive base before pushing in to mop up what is left and hit the buttons as needed.

    When I’m building my lists I try and meet the following minimum requirements:
    • 2 Long Range Weapons (HMG Range Bands or longer)
    • 1 Mid Range Weapon Bigger than a Combi (Typically Spitfires/viral combis)
    • 1 Shotgun on an agile platform (typically Camo)
    • 3 Specialists
    • 2 Anti Camo (Sensor, MSV, DTW @ ½ each)
    • 1 Anti MSV (Eclipse, White Noise, HI With big gun)
    • 1 Source of Smoke
    • 1 Anti 5 Man Link Tool (Nimbus, Stratus, Jammers, Eraser)
    • 1 Anti TAG Tool (EM, Explosive, Mono, Hacking)
    • 1 Unit that is ‘tricky’ (Holo 1, Camo, AD, Impersonator)

    You’ll notice most of my units fit at least 2 of these roles. Another key concept I make heavy use of is starting a list with a 9 man group that’s there to feed orders into an attack piece. The second order group will then store support units and 2-3 options for a soloist attack pieces. First turn of the game I select which attack piece I think is most effective given my circumstances and shunt it into my primary group to then feed off the orders. Typically by the end of my opponent’s next turn my first attack piece is dead and I ‘reload’ with a new one and go again.



    Wayward Seekers' List:

    Kill team
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    SAKIEL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    SAKIEL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    IGAO Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    KUMOTAIL Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    This is a nice swiss army list if I am going just looking for a game. As a newer player this let's you be aggressive as the symbiomates will be more forgiving. Not many tricks but you can mix and match your triads is group 1 and essentially get 16 total orders with your impetious makuels in group 2 if you deploy them well.


    I like having the viral option for no swc with the sakiel option. The spitfire on the sakiel is a good cheap attack peice. You have 2 units that can roll 5 dice. The gao-reals are great stubborn ARO peices. And the Igao can easily be substituted for a clipsos but it have Alpha Strike potential.


    This list has a little bit of something for everyone and should do well with most missions.

    Additional Resources

    These are all good reads that you should review at some point in your Infinity Career.
     
    #2 TheRedZealot, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    n21lv, Metal730, Cothel and 3 others like this.
  3. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Nice summary thank you looking forward to what else you will find :)
    And now I need to play a melee spam list
     
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  4. Ignovus

    Ignovus Agent of the Trinomial
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    As someone just getting their feet wet with Tohaa, this was fantastic. Thanks for putting in the time and effort guys!
     
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  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Knocked it out of the park on the presentation, TRZ. Well done.
     
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  6. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    The vanilla Tohaa portion is excellent and has a lot of effort put into it and is a good read. The Spiral Only portion is really lacking and seems to be more of a thought experiment rather than based on experience in games.

    If you're going to list Spiral only units you should also address the Spiral only profiles. Doing it partially is confusing for a newer player.

    Minus the Spiral Only section I think this is a great read for newer Tohaa players.
     
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  7. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    At this moment we don't have much more planned specifically. I think it might be helpful to build some other general resources or link to general resources though which is why I saved that second post. I know I'm open to suggestions about what else folks might need.

    No problem anything else you'd like to see?

    The spiral section is definitely weaker. Partly because spiral is still new partly because not all our experts are spiral players (AFAIK). You'll have to remember for some of us we've been playing Tohaa since they were released so there is a lot of experience to build on. Where as Spiral I've had probably about 5 Games with. I wanted to include the spiral units because I think its important for Tohaa and Spiral players to work together on this since we're siblings essentially. That being said if a spiral expert wants to add some thoughts we can definitely revise.
     
  8. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    For example at least a link to the smoke advice thread would make sense I think and maybe some other tacticas. Also maybe some example lists for the new guys and some advice what should be bought first for each type of list building?
    Maybe some advice for each mission what units are good etc?
    Some advice against certain enemies? How to handld tr drones, linked sniper etc (shoot through draal)?
     
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  9. Ignovus

    Ignovus Agent of the Trinomial
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    As to what else would be good to see - an example list or two for each of your playstyles would be great, and some advise on how each of you like to build your triads.
     
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  10. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    Most of the impresions are correct, maybe some units we have slighty different opinions but in general terms, a Newby BroHaa can use this data like a reference to take a look at the faction

    (Kerail Preceptor > Overhelming Positive, With Simbioboms is a unit I keep playing on every list the last 3 years) but is just my opinion, they adapts so well to my playgame :D
     
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  11. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    With regards to what I'd like to see, if I were a new player I'd like to see how each of you overall likes to play the faction because that'll influence how you rate certain models. A "meet the reviewer" section would be great.


    With regards to Spiral:

    I've only played 10 games (all in a tournament setting) myself so I'm no expert either but thats precisely why I'd preface my thoughts with a disclaimer.

    I don't see such a disclaimer regarding the Spiral section and, for the sake of newer players who are looking for more experienced advise, it should be there. Experience with the game as a whole still only gives you a partial picture. For example, I wasn't super sold on the kiutan at first glance. But after using him I've won games solely off his back and have changed my opinion significantly.

    Im all for putting spiral info here and agree Tohaa and spiral players should collaborate. But it needs to be complete. It has to touch on the Kriigel profiles (particularly the slgl), the taagma tri core and msv2 viral sniper, the AVA 3 of Draal, the AVA 2 kiutan profiles (particularly with e/mauler), the chaksa special triad, the reex special triad, the Kiel saan triads, etc.
     
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  12. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    So the triumvirate noble reviewers do have a little brief on their playstyles at the start but it sounds like you guys would like something a bit more indepth with some sort of 'prototypical' lists? Or commonly used Unit selections?


    Some of the specific reviews talk about specific profiles but barring time we can't really add much at the moment, is your feeling that it would be better to pull the section entirely until we have a more experienced group to put it together?
     
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  13. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    Here's my mental checklist when deciding if shooting through stratuscloud is the right call.

    If target is Burst 1: Don't shoot through stratuscloud.

    You both have MSV or no MSV: shoot through stratuscloud if you have higher burst, otherwise do not.

    If they have MSV and you don't: Don't shoot through stratuscloud

    If you have MSV and they dont: Shoot through your stratuscloud
     
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  14. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    I think a typical all comers list the reviewers would bring would definitely help a newer player further understand the context of the ratings.

    I'd personally pull the spiral section until you could do something more comprehensive. I agree with a lot of the points you all make. It's just that I couldn't tell a new player to read that part in good conscience because it's just not complete.

    I can definitely give a new player the Tohaa part to look through though. There's a lot of great insight there.
     
  15. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    yeh i was actually gonna suggest we write up a typical list for our vaious styles as well
     
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  16. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    While it would certainly be interesting to see some of your standard lists, new players should be aware that just copying a list can backfire really quickly. Especially @borings style of play is something that requires quite a bit of practice.
    I am somewhat of a swarm player myself, but usually end up in the range of 17 to 19 regular orders. Trying to get to 20 (or even more) usually ends in a train wreck because some pieces I am used to are missing.
     
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  17. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    I already got problems getting to 14 ;)
    I just love some of our expensive pieces so really wanna try some swarm
     
  18. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    A small update today. We pulled the Spiral Section based on feedback. The updated version is in the works but may take some time.

    We also added in a set of new lists and resources available in the second post to help illustrate how we put our concepts and ideas into practice.
     
  19. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    that is a valid point, i definitely would suggest trying these lists in practice games for fun before going to any sort of tournament with them
     
  20. Ignovus

    Ignovus Agent of the Trinomial
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    For sure - however, when you're just getting your feet wet with a faction it's nice to have a starting point to just get on the table and see what you can make it do. While netlisting really doesn't work for competitive Infinity, giving newer players a good jumping in point is pretty handy.

    When I started Tohaa (all of 2 weeks ago at time of posting), it took a significant amount of research and fiddling to come up with a list I wanted to try for my first game. Despite playing Nomads since the launch of N3.

    Thanks again for the write ups and lists guys, awesome work and your effort is greatly appreciated!