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Tohaa Smoke Tactics

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by RobertShepherd, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Usashi

    Usashi Well-Known Member

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    Don't mind me ;)
     
    #21 Usashi, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  2. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Its a nimbus plus not a nimbus zone
     
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  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    We played the same way until it was explicitly ruled otherwise in the last FAQ. It's very much part of the game's rules that you can force change facing AROs from someone about to get B2 CC22 PHY17 viral weapon attacked by a makaul - unless or until they change it again.

    Just for clarity the full interaction is in case others aren't familiar with it:

    Triad of Makaul, Makaul, Sakiel activates (just for example). Two makauls, under cover of smoke, both walk into melee with an enemy. Sakiel just moves around inside enemy ZOC. Neither makaul has provoked an ARO because stealth means you don't generate an ARO even for moving into base contact provided you don't also enter LOF, but the sakiel has generated an ARO, which the enemy must now declare or lose their ARO entirely.

    So, the enemy declares Change Facing (being a legal ARO against the Sakiel), and then the Makaul that's leading the triad declares whatever his most horribly dangerous attack is with whatever combination of martial arts and ikohl he might desire, stacking either a net -9 or -6 on the enemy dodge depending on which martial art level he picks.

    You don't get to repeat the process because the Makauls will generate AROs in subsequent orders that they begin in CC, but on that first order you can 'clever girl' the absolute bejesus out of someone.

     
    #23 RobertShepherd, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    xagroth, OrderMonkey, n21lv and 2 others like this.
  4. thirteenpixels

    thirteenpixels Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    Said it before but it bears repeating. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Makauls had zero problems murdering things in CC before the dumb FAQ. Just don't do it.
     
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  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    This interaction is hard not to do - you'd need to optionally turn off your stealth each time you move a makaul into melee whenever it's part of one of our more common links in order to not have this interaction arise. Which is your prerogative, of course.

    Given my druthers I'd much rather have seen the FAQ go the other way, but until they reconsider it, it's very clearly in the game.
     
  6. El tito Zylito

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    i see, interesting, but can i declare attack CC even though i cant aro against that makaul, and then, in the second part of the order because makaul hits me with cc, my Attack CC becomes valid?

    or its just nonsense? haha

    i asked in my infinity group and someone said that he can declare any ability and then if the requirements are met, it becames valid...

    i dont know if you understand what im talkin about, its hard for me to explain in english haha ^^
     
  7. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    No, your ARO needs to be valid when they are declared. You need to declare the target of the attack when you declare the attack, and at the time, the makaul isn't a valid target.

    You can't declare a shooting ARO at a guy you can't see so you can get him if he moves into LoF, can you? (No.) This is the same.
     
  8. El tito Zylito

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    then one situation, u have ko dali in active turn vs dakini, there is a smoke between them, if u are in the ZoC of the dakini and u turn off stealth, ur first part of the order is to move, the dakini cant see you but u have stealth turned off so the dakini can only aro change facing and reset, then ur second part of the order is to shoot at him, the dakini cant shoot back because he has already aroed no? thats a little broken dont you think?

    if the dakini is in suprresive fire he has to break the suppresive state to make a change facing because the suppresive is not going to face to face with that smoke between no?
     
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    That would be the correct way to play it.

    Yes, this makes Ko Dali very effective, but it also means getting both Ko and Smoke very close to the victim. You can do this easily with a Speculo and Ko Dali but then you're looking at a significant investment.

    It's also not foolproof, if that Dakini was in a Fireteam with 6th Sense 2 it could delay it's ARO, it also doesn't work against mines or enemies MSV2+.
     
  10. Khalipo

    Khalipo Active Member

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    I've fallen recently In love with the gao rael spitfire, sakiel paramedic and makaul triad.

    You have the Eclipse when needed but for firefights I use the Nimbus Plus. It nullifies the benefits of a core (even more, it puts a - 3CD total) just for giving up one dice.

    So most times you're 4dice vs 1instesd of 5 vs 2, and you can shoot cores because ssl2 doesn't work on this, as opposed to the regular smoke.
     
  11. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member

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    It’s a lot of setup for a great shot, it’s perfectly fine.

    You could also just shoot that Dakini from 9 inches away and it wouldn’t even get an ARO.
     
  12. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Nimbus Plus also gives you a -6 MOD to BS, so it is not 'just giving up one dice'.
    UPD: And if you think Gao-Rael's visor ignores the MOD, I suggest you to read the Nimbus Plus traits a bit more carefully (especially the part where it states it has Reflective) :P
     
  13. Khalipo

    Khalipo Active Member

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    Ah shit true. Pity.