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Tohaa in N4

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I'd be interested to see to what extent commentary is provided by people who play with or exclusively against tohaa.

    That's not a judgement on the validity of various feedback, and if you played tohaa and were firmly of the opinion that nope they're brooooke that's a valid expression (not that you should need to play a faction to pass judgement on it) - but for example above there's a comment about clipsos vs tauregs and as both a tohaa and a haqq player it's not the clipsos I'd change first (not that it would break the profile to tap it a little however you were so inclined).

    I might be a bit sensitive to this because it feels like historically tohaa have received a relatively high amount of attention from non-tohaa players compared to other factions, what with the old symbiomate discussions etc.
     
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  2. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I think some of the points aren't taking into account some of the quirks of Tohaa as a faction.

    Tohaa have the most expensive 'cheap' orders in the game. Go and fill out a ten order combat group in a faction as cheaply as you can and see what it costs.
    Tohaa 101 points
    Pano 84 .5swc
    Yu Jing 65 .5swc
    Ariadna 55
    Ca 40
    You get the idea. Whilst obviously in many cases the above is made out of rems or impetous mooks, having that more expensive baseline absolutely impacts your list building.
    Fireteam Triad costs a point, this might not sound much but its part of the reason Kamael are so awful, bar Morats/Shas anyone else paying this for their line troop gets a considerably better statline. Most Tohaa lists are easily sinking 9-12 points on the fireteam skill.

    Kaeltar are great, but the value of Coc in Tohaa is diminshed a touch imo by their lack of solo lieutenants. I'm still firmly of the belief the Rasail is a trap despite the forums seemingly having a permanent semi for them.

    Kriigel is an odd duck, yes his jammer like ability is more reliable but also cant trade up to the extreme that others can due to the W restriction. Ironically I think the biggest target a Krigel can jam is actually a Gorgos.

    For the Tuareg comparison we can see that moving from wip 13 to 14 costs 2 points, Alguacile Ghulam so it doesn't seem unreasonable that going 14 to 15 costs three points.

    Again I'm not saying that most of these things don't net out, but realising that Tohaas restrictions don't jump out at you in the same way the lack of smoke in Pano does is important when discussing the faction as whole.

    Edit: That might have come across as a bit "Dont touch my artichokes" but I really don't think much needs to be done other than the natural balancing that might come from global points changes.
     
    #62 spears, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  3. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Symbiomates and bombs need to go.
    They should add more units that can use pheromone attacks Kriigel style.
    Point costs are weird in Tohaa, they need to be revisited.
    Remove Taqeul, it never got the model and is pretty bad. I am fairly certain Tohaa will not get new non-Spiral models in 2-3 years so better to just remove it until then.
    Make Spiral Tohaa sectorial ( so it counts as alien faction ) , lose the humans.
    Even more Viral weapons, push that theme for the faction. Viral everything :-D
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's also because they are/were one of the easiest factions to win with.

    @spears Combined Army baseline troops cost 14 points each.
     
  5. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    And can still fill out a combat group with 98 points, only a few points less than Tohaa but still lower which was Spears' point.

    But on that point..

    Are you looking at regular orders?
    By my math it should be 112 Points for a combat group of 10 regular orders at the cheapest for Tohaa:
    6 Kamael, and 4 Chaksa
     
  6. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I was generally just going for bodies, for regular orders the gap closes but I think Tohaa still come out as the most expensive ten regular orders in the game. Obviously in some cases this gets a little wierder by not needing to pay a hacker/kuang shi tax etc.
     
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  7. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Ah, in that case Combined can get there at a much lower cost thanks to Hungries and Taigha.
     
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  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Shas are at 127 I think. And yes, whether or not the orders are regular matter quite a lot.
     
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  9. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The utility Tohaa can get for the cost is way higher than most other armies. How many other armies have 12 point units with as much utility as the Kaauri? 13 point units with as much utility as Makauls?
     
  10. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing, I wasnt going for an especially scientific approach more to highlight that Tohaa often take an alternative route, roadblocks and warbands being replaced with G:synch troops as an example.
     
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  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    [​IMG]

    From the Interplanetario seminar.... (source: Mayacast Facebook)
     
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  12. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    They love pouring salt into our wounds. Either that or Lemon Juice.
     
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  13. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    They had the same slide at Gen Con, and it's been put up here without the firmly tongue in cheek context.
     
  14. nethervoid

    nethervoid Active Member

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    This (or resculpt as alternative), because it's hella uncomfortable to play tohaa for new players these days, when you need to proxy literally half of the army
     
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  15. Khaleck

    Khaleck Member

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    I have start tohaa, I had problems buying some miniatures. But I think I could buy all discontinued miniatures.
    I hope that Corvus pay attention on this faction again.
     
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  16. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Im not saying Proxying is the best option, but trying to argue a return of discontinued SKUs is not going to do CB any favours.
     
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  17. nethervoid

    nethervoid Active Member

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    Well, sometimes things have to be said even everybody knows it will have no real impact.
     
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  18. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    Always, because Feedback works this way, for good or for bad
     
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  19. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I think you might have misunderstood. SKUs are discontinued for a good business reason (i.e. tackling product line size in order to make the game stockable by retailers - independent commentators I've seen have praised CB's approach to the issue). Models will cycle through over time, and tohaa will come back around, but the old SKUs can't just be brought back without either displacing something or materially impacting the capacity of retailers to stock the game.
     
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  20. nethervoid

    nethervoid Active Member

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    Just to be clear: Im not mad at CB for discontinuing SKUs and I understand why it happens.

    But odds are against that missing Tohaa units may return to stock in future. And no-one can be sure what decision will made, no-one knows what plans CB have for vanilla Tohaa in general.
    And it will not harm anyone if one more player says that those minis are still have warm welcome. This may increase chances that Tohaa will be part of this cycle again (even if decision is already made and they will be back in next year, for example).