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Tohaa clear Winners and losers

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Monster, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    You nailed the biggest caveats to my rule. Most non-CC specialists gained 0 or 2 points of CC, but some gained ridiculous amounts (for example, the Liu Xing gained 5 points of CC somehow). On average, if you had MA2, you come out ahead because you now have N3 MA3, but I don't think the two points of PH from N4 MA3 keeps up with the average increase in CC values generally. The biggest losers were Marker State MA4 units -- they can't safely engage a lot of mid-tier CC guys (like CC20-22 with MA2) nearly as safely anymore because they can't keep their target's crit chance to 5%.
     
  2. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member

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    2 remarks

    One big change is that Tohaa have now access to a bit of hacking throught some fast (kotail) unit or triad unit (sukuel or kamael) with some repeaters + kamael hd or aelis khd. It’s not almighty nomad hacking but clearly we now have really access to it. It stacks with phracking so we have more versatility and answer against big armored guys

    Else, Ectros have NCO option. Costy but it can be very usefull combined with several lt lvl 2 options (taqueul or neema for instàce) it makes the profil interesting

    Plus a new krigell profil with smoke, taquel with endgame, etc

    i think there was many good changes for our faction
     
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  3. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    When I get to play again, I'm gonna try a "Ectros NCO + Neema Lt (+1 CAP) + Taqeul Viral CoC" Triad.
    Expensive, but it packs decent Firepower, lots of wounds, a WIS 14 BTS 6 Pheroware user to counter a hacker trying to get the HI's and Specialist profile.

    Add one or two Kaeltars providing Symbiomates/Symbiobombs plus more CoC, Jaan taking advantage of Neema's +1 CAP, a Libertos and a Delegate to convert Comand Tokens into useful Orders...
     
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  4. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Unless I messed something up in Army, I'm pretty sure the smoke Kriigel is Spiral Corps-only, like it was in N3.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Makaul were MA 2 in N3, I still have the N3 army in the phone.

    Hacking with tohaa... there is an ITS mission that demands a non-KHD hacker. So get familiar with the humble kamael :/

    At this moment, there is no mention in Tohaa that you need to choose between the two... unless it's a bug, they don't share AVA in Tohaa, which is kinda logical since the AVA of Kiuutan is 1 in Tohaa and have only the Combi rifle profile...
     
  6. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Honestly if I'm going to try and run 2 Impersonation models in Tohaa, I'm going to reach for Jaan + a Greif every time.

    And I'm not just saying that because the Greif is one of my favorite units in the entire game; the combi rifle Kiiutan is just a very mediocre profile, and I don't think the Symbiont Armor and +1 BS outweigh the advantages of Dual Breaker Pistols, D-Charges, or MSV1, not to mention being 2/3 the price.
     
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  7. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    i also love more the Greif Operator than the Kiiutan

    but I use the 3 of them, different lists, different misions, different playstyles!
     
  8. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member

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    You might have miss something .. look in the app
    Yet i can see 2 krigell profils in tohaa

    but there something with greif op in tohaa it costs 0,5 more cap than in Spiral..
     
  9. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    The 2 Kriigel profiles in Tohaa are the Pherobooster and the Normal Grenade Launcher. The Smoke Grenade Launcher and LT Profiles only show up in Spiral.
     
  10. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    SMG + Pherobooster, i used to love that profile
     
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  11. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    While I used this profile a lot, too, do note that the Pherobooster got a huge nerf as it no longer benefits from link team bonusses, which makes it far less interesting.

    Also, SMGs are in a bad spot right now because everyone got a template to celebrate N4, which means if you are in good SMG range, you will eat at least one template.
    I used to love the Draal SMG profiles but they've fallen out of favour because of this interaction.
     
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  12. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    They also made units with STR immune to Phero-Booster, so no more hitting TAGs, REMs, or things like Karakuri or Su-Jian with it.

    A shame really.
     
  13. D6Damager

    D6Damager Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to Mindwipe, you can still activate the consoles with any specialist and then destroy the servers with Anti-material CC or D-charges.

    Rather than trying to walk a hacker Kamael across the board in a triad (hard mode and a lot of orders), you could instead use any of our Wip14 specialists to activate one of the two consoles and then drop in a Gao Tarsos with D-charges or infiltrating mirrorball Igao to attack and destroy the servers.
     
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  14. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but A: you can't damage servers on turn 1, so that means keeping 30 points of parachutist off the table or keeping a regular Camo Infiltrator safe for a full round, and B: the Uberhacker gets essentially free Tac-Aware (though it doesn't work for fireteams) so you're forfeiting a free order to do so.

    The Greif Operator also carries D-Charges, and Makauls can of course switch to DA CCW easily, but the lack of a decent hacker option in the faction is a significant disadvantage when other factions can just toss it on a Nokk or Securitate that they were already bringing for free bonuses.
     
  15. D6Damager

    D6Damager Well-Known Member

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    Turn 1, besides staying alive, you're going to be focusing on activating one of the consoles (which are in the middle of the board...any specialist here) so that you can destroy the servers starting turn two. A Clipsos forward observer can practically start on a console.

    The Gao Tarsos, and Igao all have a better shot at getting into your opponent's deployment zone as the tech coffins are placed 6" from the long edge in your opponent's DZ.

    The Kamael will have to be eclipse smoked by a Makaul a minimum of 30" provided you have a straight path to an opponent's server and be kept alive after first turn (Arm1 and Bts0 means they pretty much die to anything than can get to them).

    No argument that our hacking is lacking...but that mission is totally fine for Tohaa without taking a hacker. And of course, you can still take a Kamael along just in case it has a moment to shine. 17 points/0.5 SWC doesn't break the bank too much.
     
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  16. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    The actual problem that i've got with the profile, is that... is... more expensive than the Combi Breaker one, i don't get it

    And... i love that miniature, the Kriigel SMG is one of the best new models :D
     
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  17. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    - I know only two losers. It’s Sukeul Commandos and Gao Tarsos.
    - But why?! They are fine!!!
    - Do you really want to know?
    - Sure, you sound like mad.
    - OK. That’s all, cause I have no one in my army. There are beautiful vacant places for them, but no one still here. It’s not me mad. They are mad. And they would be losers till they’d change their mind...
    I hope, they would know about our beautiful and friendly collective waiting for them... I miss them.

    *silent tear on a cheek*

    Ok, I can’t call anyone in tohaa looser seriously.
    Makauls are winners for sure. And I am pretty happy about getting two Kaeltars on a table.
    Symbiobeasts were fed well another one time, so, they are the winners as usual.
     
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  18. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Alright, I've had a few games now trying to push pheroware further and further (to a high watermark of two Taquels, a Delegate, a Kriigel, and two symbibombs) and have come to the conclusion that while it's a pretty nifty tool in the toolbox it fits into our kit in the same way that hacking and jammers do elsewhere; as a supplement to your tactical options rather than the core of them. The trick will be figuring out how little you can put in a list but still position to get utility out of. Often I think that'll just be the delegate and 1-2 bombs, but the Taquel certainly fits well into an offensive mix if you can afford it.

    Just watch out for tinbots! They work against Pheroware now.
     
  19. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    First draft of a Tohaa list for Panic Room. I think I could also easily play the scenario with my Neema + Ectros + Taquel list but this one does fit a few pieces I wanted to use including the Gorgos. I think I like it:

    Don't Panic
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    GORGOS AP Spitfire, Flammenspeer, Pulzar / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (1.5 | 71)
    [​IMG] CHAKSA PERIPHERAL B Pulzar, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (- | 4)
    SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    SAKIEL (Lieutenant) Viral Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    SAKIEL Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 22)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)
    SAKIEL (Paramedic) Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    I know the Libertos can't really forward deploy in the scenario but he's still great for storming and holding the objective room, and I had both the points and SWC spare.

    It's also possible the Sukeul should just straight up be a HMG, but I had the point spare to make it the missile. I'll test and see if its wrong.
     
  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    That is really unusual and will probably be forgotten all the time! (It's also super counter-intuitive, but hey, we've got to work with what we've got).
     
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