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To HGL or not to HGL.

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Foxbringer, Feb 6, 2018.

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  1. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    That's a good point. I think the most effective order count lists (and this is the shining strength of PanO sectorials) is making the opponent work very hard to kill cheerleaders. An opponent may kill 5 cheerleaders, only to find that he hasn't touched the Swiss, Tikbalang, etc. that are providing the proper teeth of a list. However, if you deploy well, your opponent may be facing game-ending AROs that can stop his rampage quickly if you get some dice luck. Fugazi, linked Fusilier missile, linked Sapper Sniper, Spec Sgt Snipers, etc. are all good examples of troops that can force your opponent to run risk while remaining very expendable themselves. We also have troops like Auxilia and Regular Minelayers, who can contest enemy movement while not even risking themselves in LoF.

    It's actually the big reason I steer away from playing Vanilla PanO: you can't link your line troopers, so they're not very good at selling their lives to help your gameplan. Instead, you need to use pretty valuable troops to contest enemy action, and that can be costly. By contrast, NCA can make every single trooper in their list an above-average defensive threat. Whether you're removing REMs, line troops or primary threats, PanO Sectorials still have teeth and can keep coming at you.
     
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  2. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Hardly, it means the TAG player brought the right tools, namely the above mentioined HGL that can nuke anything from across the table regardless of where it hides.

    Thats the thing, typically high order lists are cheerleadser feeding a handful of agressors/threat peices. A tag player can kill those and laugh and laugh and laugh.

    Theres a pair of stickied threads up top of the forum that basically go into detail discussing the arguments you've put forward here and why they arent much of a problem for massed armour.
     
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  3. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    Best
    Thank you, will try to find this threads.
    But lets imagine: best HGL in game tryes to kill notbest cheerleader in NCA.

    Active Player
    17.25% Squalos inflicts 1 or more wounds on Aquila Guard (1 W)
    Failures
    39.50% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    43.25% Aquila Guard Dodges Squalos

    You need about 6 orders to inflict 1W. Or you can kill all ARO and than kill this major threat FtF, but if your TAG in opponent's DZ...and he lost all anti-TAG units...Irmandinho will crit you with pistol T_T.
     
  4. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    I’m not that scared of the Aquila guard. Especially if he is the more common HMG version.

    I’m way more worried about the missile launcher fusiliers in the fire team.

    And the more orders you have especially the more Fugazi remote orders the more likely it is that the big round template is face to facing against multiple targets. So those grenades that don’t kill the Aquila are still doing work.

    For extra grenade fun you can blast an ARO remote into unconsciousness using direct fire then FO so that you are hitting on 18s with that grenade launcher.
     
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  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    You arent aiming to kill and aquila HMG with a HGL....thats what the bs15 dam16 mhmg is for.

    You are killing hackers lt options rems and clumped cheerleaders. The parts that are a threat to your tag. Like interventors danavas ect
     
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  6. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    As I said before, I don't care about this possible 5 kills of non leaders. And I still have more orders and TAG or smthing else to destroy my opponent.
    It's an ARO. It should eat your opponent orders. It is good, that opponent tryes to kill it safe, but more expencive way.

    Active Player
    22.30% Squalos inflicts 1 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Unconscious)(4-5member link with SS2)
     
  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    If you dont care about stripping out the soft support elements that are a danger to your tag then thats on you. Thats not elite lists failing thats you being unable to maximise the power of those lists.

    Furthermore how are you "running a tag" and claiming you either arent running an elite list or arguing that you are running orderspam. Because outside of some silly haqq and yu jing builds any tag cheap enough to be run with spam isnt packing an mhmg and an MBT is gonna laugh amd punch EXP rounds into it.

    But hey when i started proposing the power of elite lists people were making the same arguments you are here. Over time through practice explanation amd examples its been shown that what you are arguing just doesnt hold water. Which is why so many here are exaplaining why you are misguided
     
    #27 daboarder, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  8. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    People always fail to account for the template covering 3-4 models.

    That changes the odds dramatically.
     
  9. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    In best situation (in 2-level house)you can touch 3 members at once. And you still wasting your orders on nonARO units. And you have only 10 orders and I can move my leader in another group.

    But thanks to everybody. I'll try to do my best with HGL and increase my skill with it.
     
  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    You really are missing a lot of the point here
     
  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Furthermore if you want the HGL to be more main attack and less support ypu buff it with an evo and pathfinder+fugazi combo. Sat locking any unit in the sniffer net and smashing it at 18s
     
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  12. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    Not main, of course.
     
  13. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    Example?
     
  14. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    When you trade each turn 5 orders against 1, you're already screwed after turn 1. I've played again and again massed armoured lists and each time I have faced an opponent who thought like you, I was victorious. Because at the end of turn 2, he only has 5 orders left that can do nothing against my TAG(s) while I am completing the mission.
    My Squalo had already put a Charontid in NWI in eight orders with HGL. I was happy since I killed two Unidrons and one Ikadron in the process. And when you have to face two TAGs that shoot EXP rounds at DMG 15, being in NWI with only 11 orders suddenly sucks a lot.
     
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  15. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    I don't think so as you said.

    1 turn. Opponent killed my 5 orders.
    My first turn. I killed same 5 opponent minis because I have more orders at the beginning.
    2 turn. He can do nothing
    ...
    profit

    And if I go first...

    And your example is not only about elite roster, but about your mastery and luck. Or opponent's bad moves.
    Active Player
    16.90% Squalos inflicts 1 or more wounds on Charontids (1 W)
     
  16. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Dam 16 mate ;)
     
  17. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Lol you arent killing 5 orders against massed armour mate. Your lucky if you are getting 1 because said armoured units are killing you in your turn
     
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  18. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    Show me a roster please and I will try to point those AROs or order bunker, who will be killed fast enough to slow down enemy movement.
     
  19. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Go read a primer and the numerous extensive threads thag have been done on this topic.

    You arent saying anything new and what you are saying has already often been demonstrated to be fallible
     
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  20. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    This was at the beginning of TAGline so it was DMG 15 ;-)

    Well, no :-)

    Not if I don't mess my deployment like a new player (that still happens when my brain is off). Because you'll have to spend 2-3 of those orders to just gain LoF on my guys. Then, you'll spend some orders to kill me maybe two guys that will take you at least 2 more orders (if you're really lucky or the God of dice doesn't like me) but rather 4 for only one order on my side. So you have to go back in your DZ because if you don't, your tough unit is already in a place where I can kill it and smooth your list a lot in few orders and that even if I only have 6 orders left. Having the possibility to kill it is something I won't let go. Because you didn't spend much orders to grab objectives and once this unit is dead, I will be able to lock you in your DZ if you don't want to see your guys die during your turn. At turn 3, I grab the objectives you already grabed and put you to near 0 objective points. I already had done this against ISS lists while my opponent had vampirised me all my luck and I still succeeded to grab the victory.

    And I said the Charontid was aimed 8 times by speculative fire. Of course, I didn't wound it at each order but since it wasn't the only model under the template, why not try to kill the ennemy Lt? Speculative is without risk so it is obvious that it is more random. It is a gamble too: if you're opponent is a god of luck, you're screwed but you would be screwed even with the MULTI HMG if it is the case.
     
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