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Timing and effects...let's condense this...

Discussion in 'Rules' started by CribToCoffin, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. CribToCoffin

    CribToCoffin New Member

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    Tactics cards are played back and forth, poker style, in response to one another, and can affect one another (e.g. No!), until both players pass completely, and move on to dice roll/next step.

    Switches are played completely by one player first, and then by the other player. Within this order, switches played by the first player can affect if/how switches can be played by the second player.

    For Actions though...once the requirements for an action have been checked as being successfully fulfilled, and the action has been declared, the action's effects necessarily will be carried out to its resolution, regardless of any effects from Switches that might change the game state from when the Action was initially declared.

    Does this cover these three ideas well enough? As a new player, looking between multiple blogs, FAQs, and a rulebook/reference in the game box that doesn't match the present state of the game rules, I just want a one-stop post to which I can refer in the future when other new players debate these points. Will these statements I've made work for that? Thanks for your help.
     
  2. rag1n

    rag1n Active Member
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    I support this query above re the tactics

    When will there be official clarifications (i.e. beyond the forum posts) for the Tactics playing?

    From the rules reference guide - Tactics: After declaring a Face to Face Roll is needed, both players may play Tactics to modify the Roll. If both players want to play Tactics, the Underdog chooses who does so first

    Since there is no statement that the players alternate playing Tactics the rule mentioned then proceeds to one player playing all their tactics first then the other.

    If you ask me, this needs to be officially clarified in an updated rules reference
    --

    Switches are clear in the rules. Person declaring the action decides on order of switches and completely by one player than the other. See the switches section in the reference guide. Yes you are right in that the first switch can affect the resolution of the 2nd switch

    Correct on actions
     
  3. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    About the Tactics... In the Reference Guide states that "Tactics have a timing text that specifies when to play them" (Tactics entry, point 6)

    I think it's clear, if the timing is correct, you can play it (e g. you can play dice tactics when you are going to roll)

    And no, you don't need to play them all at the same time, and no, there's no "time window" or whatsoever to play them, just it's the timing. That's why the Underdog gets to determine which player plays first when both want to play a Tactic with the same timing.

    So to answer you, well, it's most as you say, but you don't need to stick to "Player A one card, Player B another", you can play two or more cards in a row... Is more organic than other games with cards, and can seem strange (specially if you play another games with "time windows" or "play cards phases").

    Not really... Player B (chosen by the Underdog to play firstly, as both want to play a Tactic before the FtF roll) plays Dodge; Player A then plays Take Aim and Tsuchi-Do; then Player B plays Focus and Block; Playes A plays a No! for the Block... That's all correct, every card has been played at their correct timing, no problem... After all these, if both players agree, they proceed to the roll.

    All clear and correct

    Clear and correct too

    Hope this helps (and sorry if there's any mistake)

    :3
     
  4. CribToCoffin

    CribToCoffin New Member

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    Thanks to you both for the replies to this post. Damiel, on Tactics, you're correct...perhaps a better term would be "poker ettiqutte", from standpoint that you allow the opponent to respond to what you've played each time you play card(s). And I suppose that's more from the betting aspects in poker...here we are "betting cards" in a way.

    I feel that most other aspects of the rules are fine from logic standpoint. The interactions of Switches within Actions are the one thing that I feel needs to be hammered home in one statement somewhere in a single location. The idea that switches are a "mini game" if played while an Action is being resolved is crucial. By that I mean switches used before subsequent switches can affect how those subsequent switches are played. But nothing from the switch effects have any bearing on the outcome of the Action taking place. I know this is clear once you read discrete parts of the rules reference, blogs, etc., but you need to dig and put things together to see this. Thanks for helping to clear that up, for me at least, and hopefully to others that are new as well.
     
  5. rag1n

    rag1n Active Member
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    Thanks for your response but where does it say this in the rules? What I posted is from the rules reference guide and my interpretation is based on such.
     
  6. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
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    rag1n likes this.
  7. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    Reference guide, entry Tactics, point 6.

    As long as it's the correct timing any player can use Tactics.

    Since that, you can still play a Tactic if the timing is right, even if your opponent has played two Tactics after you've played one. You don't "alternate" anything, just play with timing, and if both players want to play at the same time, Underdog choses which one goes first. That's all

    Hope this helps

    :3
     
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  8. rag1n

    rag1n Active Member
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    That does help. Thank you for clearing that up

    I still think it's a bit of a weird way to do it but now I can reference it - that's all I needed!
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    For what it's worth, this blog post is the only place where the timing of playing Tactics is spelled out in that way for English speakers.

    The rules for Simple Rolls and Face to Face Rolls in English say:

    "Tactics: After declaring a ... Roll is needed, both players may play Tactics to modify the Roll. If both players want to play Tactics, the Underdog chooses who does so first."

    Players often read this as the Underdog deciding who will play all their Tactics first, while the Spanish text says that the Underdog chooses who will play a Tactic first.

    Paging @-V- as this appears to be a translation issue between the languages.
     
  10. rag1n

    rag1n Active Member
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    That's always been the point I'm making and it's been made before by myself and other people!
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I know, I believe that's what led to the blog post.
     
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