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Time for prone remotes?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Longman, May 8, 2020.

  1. Melkhior

    Melkhior Doing filthy things for EI

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    There is example that skill can have changed value of the stat. They used Combat jump (PH=10) in the example and I can see TAG could use same thing and have skill Dodge(PH=11).

    Important is this part rules page 60:

    •The value of an Attribute, Burst, Damage, etc. in round brackets next to a Special Skill, Weapon, or Equipment will be applied only when using that Special Skill, Weapon or Equipment.

    And this Example:

    ► Combat Jump (PH=10) means that, when performing the PH Roll required by this Skill, a PH value of 10 must be applied instead of the user’s PH Attribute.
     
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  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Excellent point, I had forgotten about that.
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    It's also in the Restrictions Chart at the back, but yes, the wiki will link to it under Unconscious, and under Troop Types.
     
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  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Thanks, I had completely missed that entry on page 100.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I know that probable wasn't sarcastic, but I read it sarcastically and lol'd :)

    Honestly there's a lot of good stuff like this in the rules, it's just sometimes non-obvious.
     
  6. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I still think it should have been listed in Prone's "activation" box on page 36 as its own bullet point, rather than being a sub-item for unconscious, and on the trooper characteristics on page 19, which states that HI. TAG, and REM models are hackable by default due to their unit types.
     
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  7. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Given that REMs can go prone now, who would like to see some TAGs gain the ability to crouch and reduce their Silhouette height to the next tallest Silhouette with the same base size? I'm thinking a special skill for manned TAGs maybe; for one thing, it'd be nice to be able to park them hull-down behind cover before the pilot jumps out to push a button.

    TAGs, especially manned TAGs, are directly inspired by Landmate units from Masamune Shirow's Appleseed series, and IIRC they could hunker down behind low walls. I kinda think they ought to be able to go prone, but 3mm height for something the size of a TAG seems really goofy. (For that matter, a prone REM being 3mm high seems...off.) I'd settle for something like this instead:

    Hull-Down
    A Tactical Armored Gear with this Special Skill can assume the Hull-Down state to reduce its height, at the cost of reduced mobility. This functions similarly to the Prone state, with some exceptions.

    ACTIVATION
    • Only troopers with the Hull-Down Special Skill may enter the Hull-Down state.
    • During the Deployment Phase, players may deploy one or more of their Troopers Hull-Down by placing a Hull-Down Token beside them.
    • When a Trooper declares a Short Skill or ARO with the Movement label, its player may indicate that it will go Hull-Down.
    • By doing so, any Movement performed during the Skill or ARO will be executed while Hull-Down, with the resulting reduction to the Trooper’s MOV and Silhouette values.
    • Note that a Trooper that was in LoF before going Hull-Down will still count as being in LoF at the start of the Skill or ARO.
    EFFECTS
    • Hull-Down Troopers have a Silhouette (S) value that is 3 lower than their normal Silhouette (S) value. S7 troopers become S4 while Hull-Down. S6 troopers become S3 while Hull-Down. S5 troopers become S2 while Hull-Down. Troopers with a regular Silhouette value higher than 8 or lower than 5 cannot go Hull-Down.
    • While in this state, Troopers have both their MOV values and movement bonuses halved when declaring any Skill with Movement label (Move, Dodge…).
    • This state does not affect Automatic Special Skills or Automatic Equipment, except when explicitly stated in their description.
    CANCELLATION
    • A Hull-Down Trooper may automatically cancel this state at the beginning of their movement by declaring a Skill or ARO with the Movement label. The player must announce he is cancelling the Hull-Down state when declaring the Skill or the ARO. By doing so, the state is cancelled at no cost and the Trooper can carry out its Move using its regular MOV and S values.
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    A manned TAG would be less flexible due to the fleshy meatbag inside...

    Honestly, I'm OK with the flat "no prone" rule, especially if the objective is simplicity, and doubly so now you can get cover from a roof without being prone.

    I've a feeling we'll see a number of other un-prone-able troopers in N4 such as bikes, and potentially current Heavyweight troopers or Muls
     
  9. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Funny thing, the technical drawings of Landmates address this (along with issues like "where in the legs are the operator's knees?") because Masamune Shirow had some obsessive tendencies around mechanical design. For one thing, the "spine" articulation of a Landmate is in front of the pilot, or rather is a ring-like frame centered around the pilot for horizontal twisting, and is in front of the pilot for bending forward. The frame of the machine provides enough structural rigidity for the pilot to drop the mecha prone without fear of getting squashed, for the same reason the pilot isn't instantly killed if the machine is kicked in the back and tips forward.

    My reason for thinking it'd be cool for manned TAGs is that they're already at a survival disadvantage due to the lack of two unconscious levels and not being able to use command tokens to re-roll engineering checks to fix them. There's not really a good reason to deny hull-down to remote-presence TAGs except for flavor/balancing out the disadvantages of manned TAGs.
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    The gap between the two types has narrowed since manned TAGs got actually useful pilots that also didn't completely bail from the battlefield when their ride is destroyed, survivability of the Rempres ones is really good, but only if your engineer is still alive, and the remote pilots (at least for PanO) are kinda awful.
     
  11. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I think the TAG pilot death thing was a mismatch between Spanish and English where it took a while to notice that there had been a translation error.

    PanO definitely has the worst REM pilots, but they also have some of the best TAGs.
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yeah, I'm pretty OK with the Aleph and EI/Ur remote pilots being better as they're controlled by actual AIs.
     
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