1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

thoughts on Play by intent

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Death, Dec 12, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Come on stiopa its colloquial language. And its far more personable and less impressionable than distorting and distilling things down to pbi, antipbi, raw team, ect ect.

    As to it being said to be in the wrong or not thats exactly what PS has said. And wolf seems to think hes in agreement (hes not based on his statement)

    You and i however are in agreement. And i appreciate ypur stance
     
    #981 daboarder, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
    Stiopa likes this.
  2. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    2,037
    Wooooooo we made 50!!!!!1!!1!1
     
    Barrogh and daboarder like this.
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    Hell no. I'm going to play how the rulebook tells me too, and if they want me not to they can issue an errata.

    The fact of the matter is is that Infinity's Anglosphere, at least (no idea what happens outside of that) is going to play with intent regardless of what happens in this thread. And since intent's good enough for the Interplanetario, there's no reason not to play with it 100% of the time. Y'all gotcha players can fume and rage that placing a model on the game table too precisely is cheating, but nobody seriously believes that. Your bootlicking appeal to authority does not convince the rest of us, especially considering that neither @ijw or @psychoticstorm are CB employees.
     
  4. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,754
    Likes Received:
    5,802
    Congratulations. In few short sentences you've managed to fit in denial based on cherry-picking the wording, the bandwagon fallacy, insults, a strawman, and even more insults.

    I'd like to ask the pro-intent side: are you really ok with this style of discussion? I agree that both sides had their moments in this thread, but I can't recall any of our posts loaded with this kind personal attacks. I sincerily believe that you can't expect us to discuss it calmly and in good faith, while accepting this kind of language.

    The hospitability of this forum is our collective responsibility. I'd like us to keep this and every other discussion pleasant and civil.
     
  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Kinda started on the other side stiopa....its not an excuse but thers a lot of sod on both. For example wolfs now cmlaimong IJW has said hes right...thats a lie, he hasnt and knowing the bloke and seeing his posts elsewhere id posit that hes probably much loke you and not fussed so much.

    Thats just one example of the sort of things but both sides are doing it. Doesnt make it better but we're better off ignoring it that tarring entire arguments with the brush belonging to their wealest representatives
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,754
    Likes Received:
    5,802
    Sorry daboarder, but you're mistaken. I won't argue about lies on either side, because I can't recall the precise arguments right now. I won't argue about appeal to authority, because our side's obviously uses it. But please read Hecaton's post and answer me with a straight face, that we've used this kind of language.
     
  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    Oh i think it crosses the line and ill pay that the end in particular is probably the worst ive seen.

    Im just saying dont hold us in contempt due to one post. Im not judging you or your argument stiopa by wolfs posts all im saying is keep the same courtesy in mind.

    But yes your right this isnt the place for such language and its deteimental to the forums.
     
    jj.konko, david_lee and Stiopa like this.
  8. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    773
    I assume you mean apart from the guy who made a video telling everyone the "right" way to play claiming authority from CB without actually having it, right?
     
    Zewrath, Ebon Hand, jj.konko and 2 others like this.
  9. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    997
    I have a slightly tangential but relevant question here, I think it's been touched on a bit but I don't think there was a resolution as such...

    The approximate 3mm x 3mm box for line of sight, how approximate are you allowing?
    Does it have to be 3mm in both dimensions or is it okay as long as it gives the same area?
    For example if you have a 2.8mm x 3.2mm that's almost definitely within the description of "approximately 3x3" right? But what about say 1mm x 30mm? It's far more area but it's a much smaller cross section

    Because it seems to me that it gives a pretty substantial margin of error for pie slicing if it's played as a minimum in both dimensions, given how far into the line of sight of the non target enemy model you'd have to move to be a valid target for an ARO. So that pretty much makes the shakey hands point moot except in extreme cases, where I'd hope common sense and decency would prevail, regardless of what the rules actually say, and at the same time makes the play it where it lays point almost totally irrelevant since it would be the same outcome in the vast majority of cases.

    However if you play it by volume, given the height of the silhouette, then the micron accuracy stuff is in play, leading to the maddening teeth gnashing arguments (kinda like this thread :yum:) about intent and etiquette...

    That and a phrase in the bingo card posted a while ago, leads me to what is my interpretation of the issue:

    All the methods of play described here all revolve around burden of proof. The active player declares they will move then moves their model to the end of their movement and/or places a silhouette if the end point isn't the point with line of fire. At this point the movement is set in stone, and burden of proof is on the active player to show where his model actually moved to,with the aid of the silhouette if necessary. If the meta, TO or opponent agrees with intent play, then the phrase 'it's mathematically possible' (it is mathematically possible for Scotland to win World Cup 2022...)is enough proof,unless their are extenuating circumstances such as a taller or elevated silhouette on the same vertical plane, in which case burden of proof shifts to the reactive player to demonstrate that the point in question does not exist. Then the reactive player declares AROs, at which point the burden of proof is now on them to show line of fire, zone of control etc from the models, markers and the position of hidden deployment troopers which are declaring ARO.

    If you move a model too far or out of cover as the active player then you dun goofed, learn from it. Your opponent might let you take it back in the spirit of sportsmanship, but unless you're still learning the rules, also in the same spirit you should maybe consider declare an idle since losing an order is less of an issue than losing the model. It's also worth noting that even if you play it as it lays, you can still come out on top even in the least favourable circumstances you'll still be able to split your burst and potentially wound or eliminate both/all the models ARO in. I understand that a lot of people prefer to have every order they declare stack the roll in their favour as much as they can, but it's still possible to be saved or screwed by the dice gods, even to the point of a jotun being killed by a 6point LI with a pistol, a knife or even bare hands...
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    Well, that's just straight up lying. Which is par for the course for the "gotcha" crowd, strangely.
     
    deagavolver likes this.
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    I'll give that you're more civil than I am, even if you do fit in plenty of insults when you think it'll fly under the radar. But it doesn't really matter, considering that the gotcha crowd's viewpoint is just *wrong*; it's devolved into @psychoticstorm claiming that you must place your model semi-blindly on the table when moving it. And, as mentioned in the last post, we've got people claiming to have secret knowledge from CB about how to play the game when they have nothing of the sort, and they know that.

    Fundamentally, the rules are as CB presents them in the written documentation we have. Even *if* they made private statements contradicting that, it wouldn't be valid, because Infinity is a game described in the Infinity rules, not merely by what some CB employees say verbally. That's my critique of @Wolf 's extreme appeal to authority, which is doubly suspect due to the whole situation with obfuscatory wording to try to imply that Palanka is CB's authority on Infinity.
     
    Zewrath and Ebon Hand like this.
  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,754
    Likes Received:
    5,802
    @Hecaton, I have no intention of further discussing either the rules, or assumptions about yours or mine behavior with you. This is a matter for Mods as far as I'm concerned.

    @daboarder: No worries, I hold no one in contempt here, certainly not on the basis of another person's posts. I don't even judge Hecaton as a person. It's a behaviour, not people, that should be criticised here, and I since I ask others to refrain from personal attacks I plan to follow the rules myself.

    Must've missed that, but if you're right then yes, it's an outright lie, has no place here and should be called out. Still, it's not the kind of personal insults you can see on this page, wouldn't you agree?
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  13. Alkasyn

    Alkasyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    620
    How do you know no one plays non-intent? I advocate non-intent and I play that way with my friends, I just don't see the point in repeating it all the time int his thread.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    So evade evade evade, avoid explaining your point and always back away from answering the questions that would torpedo your viewpoint... then cry to the mods when it becomes no longer tenable.

    The Anglosphere seems to play intent pretty consistently. I guess over there in Poland you don't, but Poland's meta has always been noted as... unique, by the rest of the Infinity community.
     
  15. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,785
    Actually near all the games I played throughout last three years here in Poland were totally Intent. That might be a personal experience and not relate to entirety of Polish community but most peeps at events play Intent.
     
    Zewrath, Ebon Hand and Plebian like this.
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,412
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    Good to know!
     
  17. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    296
    Big picture here. It's not an absolute, but literally have never seen this, even from people who claim to play this way, in person... I can only claim to playing in the US (Gencon/Rumble/Brawl/I4/etc ...) and a few Brits mixed in over the years, though.

    Is it possible? Yes. I venture to say some people would get BETTER at this game because they have superior: Range estimation, spatial awareness, etc.

    That isn't interesting to a lot of us, its a skill measurement some people don't have. What we want is the tactics, movement feints, move/counter move is where infinity goes from a just another game to a complex and repeatable experience.
     
    Zewrath, Ebon Hand, Plebian and 2 others like this.
  18. Alkasyn

    Alkasyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    620
    I hope you're not saying my way of playing is dumbing down the game - my experience of it is as complex and dynamic as yours, thank you very much.

    I also use tactics, movement feints and move/counter move. That, plus the skill of estimating distance that you mentioned that I believe most of us need to possess anyway (estimating weapon ranges) and or the acceptance of the fact that I sometimes make mistakes and take more AROs than planned.

    It is a fundamental question of approaching the game IMO - some people think that because something is possible, we can just execute the manouvre and the skills in executing it do not matter(be they motor, patience, experience, or whatever else in nature). Some other players think that the same skills actually matter and are part of the game. There's no reconciliation of the two approaches, IMO, one group would just have to accept the other interpretation.

    I have also played in many locales, and I do agree that most people play with some variation of intent, but that doesn't mean it's the only (and the correct one!) way to play. Very often, I play non-intent even against players actively using intent against me. I even had people telling me "Hey, during the course of the game you have taken too many AROs, you should've just declared LoF against this one guy".

    But that's not how I play the game.
     
  19. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,754
    Likes Received:
    5,802
    Alkasyn, I agree with your post with this exception. There's no reason for either side to accept the other's interpretation. We should agree that there's more then one interpretation, and regardless of what the actual rules say - which both sides won't agree on - both approaches will be used. Honestly, there's no point for us all to agree on a single way to play.

    As for the Polish community - people on the Infinity Poland fb page are split on this as well. There's no clear consensus here.
     
  20. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Bazinga! Post #1000. I hereby claim the Chibi Bostria model!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.