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thoughts on Play by intent

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Death, Dec 12, 2017.

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  1. david_lee

    david_lee Well-Known Member

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    My opponents eyes are approximately as precise as mine. As long as we aren't doing the whole "not looking at the table" meme, I am going to place my model where I believe it to be 100% correct
     
  2. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    he said none of them matter man, you cant look when you are placing the silly.
     
  3. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't drink myself (probably why I spend more time on the forum yelling than the folks I play with do), but you can buy me a coke. :smile:
     
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  4. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member
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    This thread needs more scotch, and maybe an actual dev post.. I'll get the scotch, but the devs won't show up. :(


    Y'all realize that the major influence threads like this have really effects the nrw players that frequent the forum not the vet that doesn't wander them regularly, right?

    This is is yet another sad day where we have bloc of players that say 'x' and another bloc that say 'y'. One set actually plays the way they describe and another... doesn't but takes great pains to point out its 'the rules'

    The only thing this thread has accomplished is to increase post counts and develop a percheived schism amoung players.

    CB really should weigh in, but remember. Companies don't make money on rules they make money on selling models.

    Play your way where you want to play and don't crush this game. Its amazing and doesn't deserve this.
     
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  5. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Sorry mate, we are not reigning this in before page 50.
     
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  6. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    I've been having chats about this topic outside this thread and one thing that I have been wondering is what is the point of the etiquette blurb if LoF is only determined after and action is taken and not during? There is no etiquette to sharing Open Information. It is Open and required by rules to be shared.

    If I complete my order and move my model and that position is final there is nothing to discuss. I will either have LoF to multiple models or not. My opponent is not allowed to lie about their trooper being BS15 instead of its true BS12 if I ask yet there is no etiquette blurb explaining that they need to truthfully tell me that info. If there is no chance for me to change my mind about a troopers placement before the trooper reaches its final place on the table what do I need to ask my opponent for that requires any etiquette beyond expecting them to not cheat? If at that point we disagree about LoF it will be because we have eyeballed the situation differently or the laser holder is being too shaky with their hands. Again, there is nothing to discuss there, simply call a judge or have a dice off.

    If they are not allowed to actually check their LoF to see if it might disrupt my order declaration what point is there in discussing it? They don't know the answer any more than you do. Even if they truthfully think there is no ARO to disrupt your order it doesn't matter. We will have a black and white LoF check after I move and their previous thoughts will be proven correct or not. Us agreeing on something that has no impact on the outcome defeats the purpose of discussing it in the first place.
     
  7. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest River Cool is where I belong

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    Sarsaparilla, Sioux City or Earp's Original. Or a nice ginger beer. Try Maine Root. (it's not really beer) Or even Sioux City Prickly Pear soda. Much better than Colas.

    Of course it is all a matter of preference. and there is no disputing that, at least. :sunglasses:

    And the thread inches closer to 50 pages :)
     
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  8. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member
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    There are means of nuking threads...

    It may need to be used at this point.
     
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  9. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    FWIW, I eyeball the situation, and then put my fingernail on the tabletop where I think the model should go. Since model poses can make it difficult to represent Facing and positioning against cover (Pan O Seraph FTW!) I'll say something about that, too. And for the sake of courtesy, I try to keep my fingernail in place, avoid any micro-adjustment, and aim to put the model down fairly where I indicated.

    Yes, I've been known to screw up an entire Order this way, draw unwanted ARO's, and miss my own LoF, but as a coach used to say when I complained about my chess blunders "Don't worry, you'll stop doing it after another thousand games..." And he was right, too! :smile:
     
  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Nah australia wont be playing this way. Doubt youve convinced others either
     
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  11. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    Rules errors are going to be very common and can't be helped.
    I did not see a rules error(well I did but it is more dramatic this way). what I saw was a statement of intent fallowed by a misjudgment in movement, fallowed by a warning(?) from his opponent and a very short conversation about the final position being correct and the word legal was used but we can ignore that as a possible mistake.
    This was very plainly an example of this Hunter and that other unknown probably not important guy playing by intent....
    Maybe it was a moment of weakness and they both simply decided to ignore it for the sake of smooth, simple, fun play... all things you want in a demo... also things you want in your game.
    What you do NOT want to do in a demo is misrepresent how your game is played as it kind of defeats the point.
    So how many examples of intent play am I going to find in this one video, because this order I pointed out was the FIRST full order I watched...
     
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  12. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    OK, now we are getting somewhere. After eyeballing, why is it important to indicate your intended location as a point on the table (does this correspond to the center of the base?) and not the models actual intended 3D position (Corresponding to it's silhouette)?
     
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  13. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    a) Where is the "fingernail method" described in the rules?

    b) You just described playing with intent (describing your intent for where the model should be placed, its facing, and its relationship to cover) and neatly demonstrated one reason why you can't practically not play with intent (the models are not designed to work with "play it as it lies" and nor are silhouettes, since you have to move models to place them).

    If you're not playing with intent you can't do those things, you have to place the model and play it where it lies.

    There's nowhere in the rules that describes using a silhouette template to mark a final position either. That's a house rule you made up acting like it's an actual rule too.

    The idea that what you are saying is explicit in the rules is farcical, especially given 80% of the community or so rejects it when asked.

    CB may well indeed play more or less that way, loosely. It's not in the rules, and virtually no one else does internationally. If you or they want to blow their game up by insisting a system of ridiculously impractical contradictions is the rules, you are welcome to do so. That's not a terribly unusual (but generally well meaning) method of operation from them.

    But no one with any sense who's played the game competitively should listen to you, especially given the consistent misrepresentations you seem make. For example titling Palanka as a CB designer in your video as if this is some sort of official clarification, conveniently not mentioning he's not a designer of the game in question, and that CB have not issued any such clarification, and have every opportunity to do so. It's no more valid than Bostria getting the rules wrong on a BOW video is a valid clarification the rules should get played wrong.

    If Gutier supports your position so strongly in private conversations, get him or CB to say so officially, or it means exactly nothing.
     
    #973 Hachiman Taro, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  14. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, he does have multiple N3 credits related to rules.

    However, I think we could use some Gutier confirmation/intervention, considering the scope of some of this.
     
  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Or, we could ignore the handful of posters arguing loudest and play as per what 80% of the community reads the rules as....
     
  16. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    You keep saying that. Not only is trying to get a straight answer on the rules not a popularity contest, it is also a lot more split than you seem to think. You reference WGC over and over, but when someone posted about this there the other day it was one of the most rapidly controversial threads I've ever seen. Your own bubble of experience is so important to you that you're not even willing to consider other possibilities.
     
  17. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be near impossible to explain what the debate is about. We need rules authorities at Corvus to see the interaction between Carlos and Killian that @Andre82 linked to, and comment on its appropriateness.
     
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  18. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I think he was referring to the poll on the forums, given the 80% figure.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/poll-what-does-lof-being-open-information-mean-to-you.1181/

    You should vote and encourage your friends to vote, seeing as whether they do or don't it's going to be used as evidence in future debate.
     
  19. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Mate even wolf here has just described how he moves expressly against PS's rules and using intent.

    Furthermore has it occurred to you if the vast vast majority read the rules and come to a specific conclusion, that said conclusion is what the rules say.
     
    #979 daboarder, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  20. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    daboarder, from your statements like "you won't convince us/others", or "we could ignore the minority and play our way" I think you've got the impression that we're trying to make others play the way we describe. But you know what?

    No one is trying to.

    It doesn't matter which approach is better covered by the rules, because people will do exactly as you say: read the rules, interpret them their way, and play the way they believe is more fun. No one is saying it's wrong and that they should stop. You're defending your way of playing from an attack that's not there.
     
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