Things I'm loving or not loving from CB, past and present

The biggest thing i do not like in infinity is the corner case rule holes. I came from warmachine mk2 and infernals were extremely important.

To go for ages and have no idea how to play corner case situations is bad. I do realize that "infernals" need to ensure that all theirs answers are stay consistent across various threads (if the answer changes as they sometimes do, then all posts need to be updated as well)

That said, it ensures that rules are played consistently across the world, and that i want so badly.


I love the balance of this game. While tohaa gets a bad rap, in this game i still feel like the better plays in the game is what gives the player the win.

 

Things I love:

Mixed links and NA2 for the same reasons you gave. However I do think they need to be conservative with mixed links going forward, since a basic Core link is about to be more of an exception than a Special Core, at this point. Special Core probably a also needs its own rule and syntax for the sake of text real estate. E.g. "Druze (2) Core: 1-3, Druze (4) Core: 1" in the profile, could read "Special Fireteam: 2 Druze and up to 3 Brawlers" and "Special Fireteam: 4 Druze and 1 Brawler". They cover a zillion paragraphs under the "CH: Camouflage" text so there's no real reason to write a paragraph for each (increasingly common) Special Fireteam.

Better and better models. A lot of old ones are dumpy and thankfully there are less and less of them these days. Details on new models are much more pronounced and therefore much easier to paint.

Plot progression. I totally get the ire from YJ players but I'm glad to see the damn plot move along. Here's to Combined Army invading Dawn or Svarl in the campaign.

Oh and S5 HI. Some S5 HI are more equal than others (Kriza), but I love all these new big boys.

Things I hate:

Frenzy discount on Fireteams: Frenzy should at least "turn on" in fireteams. And I wouldn't mind the least if the no-cover-from-Impetuous applied in Fireteams, too. Lots of good options (Alguacils, Reverends, etc) are ignored nowadays because of cheaper warband or warbandesque options.

Combi Rifles, but specifically Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, is the biggest cause of wasted points in Infinity. This might seem odd but bear with me. A Combi is 3 points over a Rifle for just that 0-8 +3, and 4 points over a plain Rifle + Light Shotgun for basically no added utility. To put that in perspective, a Killer Hacker Forward Observer SMG Zhanshi would cost 10 points to a Combi Rifle Zhanshi's 11. Basically no competitive player would take Combis if Rifles were presented as an option in the same profile. They could make them cheaper but I think they're supposed to be more expensive for profile/faction balancing. So I think they need some kind of soft buff. +0 out to 24 would sure help, as an example.

Automedikit and Regeneration... are the second biggest point wasters, but not as common. No reason they should be worth less than Mimetism or Symbionts yet cost twice as much.

Faction favoritism. This has always been there, and it isn't as bad at other games, but there's no excuse for it. Bostria once said "Every time I make a list, I make it again in Nomads and see that it is better, haha." That'd be fine for a player to share about but not a designer. I can think of a couple dozen players on this forum who could rebalance the lesser sectorial in an afternoon.

Tohaa "patch" overkill. HSN3 overdid the fixes to Tohaa. Symbiont needed a fix on Gorgos and Ectros but not on the rest. Symbiomates are overkill. There's a couple other quibbles but those are the big two that need some gas let out.

ITS. There are better systems than ITS. It's bloated and bad for 50%+ of Infinity's profiles. The 3-round limit in particular is the main problem behind the lack of value to AD, MI, and healing/repairing.

Oh and terrain rules, all these terrain rules and terrain skills and they aren't even mandatory. ITS should enforce a minimum zone of terrain for the table so all this Multiterrain and _______ Terrain can be put to use.

 

Things I love;

Most stuff that CB is doing, basically. All the new minis and rules I have seen recently are cool, they are getting better and better at both their mini design and game design, and I feel like this year we're getting some very solid new stuff. I can't wait for the new Sectorals and each month's releases makes me excited! Great game to be a fan of.

Things I am not so much of a fan of;

Primitive factions don't get penalised enough for being primitive, not playing the hacking game basically just isn't a disadvantage at all. Some factions aren't supported as well as I would like, ALEPH notably. Some old stuff like Morans isn't getting a resculpt despite obviously needing one, but I recognise there is such a thing as a design schedule which is pretty jammed as is.

Things I dislike;

Symbiomates are probably the only genuinely badly designed and imbalanced rules in the game, but they are that IMO. Not a big deal since one thing in one faction but they are just tiresome to play against, really.

 

Things I like:
- The mixed fireteams are a really interesting innovation and make me hope that some unloved existing fireteams in curent sectorials can be made a legitimate choice in competitive lists. Which is a long way of saying REMs for my Bolt Link plx
- NA2: I own a lot of PanO/NCA and an all right amount of Vanilla Haqq. Now with NA2 and a single box of Druze, suddenly I have QK, DBS and Ikari as well. This really invigorates me as a player without considerable investment because I can try out very different playstyles now what I already have. Add to this the new proxy rules and it's not just experimenting, you can go to ITS without spending a fortune if you so desire.
- Love the new sculpts. Pretty much refuse to buy the janky old sculpts from the pre-autocad days. Limits some options for me but not really. Super easy to be competitive with just the new stuff. I do feel sad however that my Swissile with his massive kill streak is probably going to get permanently benched when I finish painting the B:IS Swiss HMG.

Things that could be better:
- I love the JSA/Yu Jing splint but I'm not a YJ player. I feel like they could have managed the transition better. Change management is always difficult yes but there's having a rough transition and having a fully unpleasant experience. I'd be furious if models I owned suddenly got squatted. I really feel for JSA players losing untis from their roster. The proxy rules are nice but also a complete copout.
- 'Inspired models': There's referencing something and then there's blatant knock-offs. The Nomad 'homages' can mostly be what you want depending how you paint them. Celty is unmistakable. Poorly done.
- Hacking: Honestly, if captain spud's hacker helper didn't exist, this would be such a damn chore. The entire infowar needs a streamline. And before people crucify me for trying to turn the complex marvel that is Infinity into Baby's First TT Game, there's a world of difference between Infinity as is and Age of Sigmar. What I'm saying is that CB should nudge the game system closer to the centre instead of all the way to the other end of the spectrum.
- Rules bloat: As above some simplification could occur across the board for some rules and abilities given there are so many. For me the best example that comes to mind is Martial Arts where you consult a matrix to understand the benefits of that particular level. if a skill has levels then surely it just makes sense for the higher levels to have a cumulative impact (Camo, Fatality etc) instead of a completely different impact.
- Authorised BH: Can't I just pay more to take the bike? I really, really like the model ;_;

Things I hate:
- Ariadna

 

What I like:

• Mixed fireteams. I'm a big fan of flexibility, and the current upsurge of special cases and inclusions makes for a gameplay that is much more fun and ensures we don't see the same lists over and over again. It was always so, I certainly haven't used the same list more than 2-3 times, but it's more pronounced in the N3 era. It's also a neat way of balancing units besides changing their stats, skills, or loadouts. Is that HI not powerful enough to get taken as a solo piece over a different one? Allow it to form link with some LI, now it has a purpose, doesn't compete directly with others, and enchances the LI fireteam in question. Is that unit unwieldy in a Core link? Give it Haris with some character or other units attached. And now the Remotes are in the mix as well. I can't wait to see how it'll affect existing sectorials.

• Great balance, both external - between factions, and internal - between one faction's units. Some sectorials might be harder to play, some units might be left out by players for the time being, but all in all most things in the game has its place, and all factions/sectorials have a fighting chance. Even the outdated MRRF and Shasvastii. Big event statistics show that there's still player preference and power curve, but it's much more even than in other systems I've played. Especially given the amount of armies we have.

• Connection to the real world. CB's use of real world history, organizations and people to fuel Infinity's fluff makes for a very interesting world. In many ways better, more believable and engaging, than w40k's grimdark. There's very little black and white, but many shades of grey. And it can make a person dig into history to research some juicy details about their army's inspiration source. And it's nice to see people getting passionate on forums over real history, even if the discussions can sometimes get ugly.

What I hope will improve:

• Balance, still. While it's very good, there are still issues that could be improved. MAF suffers from some questionable design choices, which results in some units being autoincludes (Kornak, for example), while other hardly see the table at all. And for a "brick in the face" army it's most powerful units have surprisingly little power. Same goes for MO - it's a strong army, but if you'll ask a veteran players what it's good at, most will say the same two things: Hospitaller link and TOFO Sergeants. Some units, like Teutons, don't have a well defined niche. Basic Rifles/Combi Rifles are a poor choice for non-linkable HIs, regardless of faction. Posthumans and Ghazi are two units in the game that might be considered broken. These are all minor issues, but they pile up in some places. Hopefully CB's monitoring the Army statistics will show them problem spots.

• Limited viewpoint. It's sometimes clear that the design team has their own set of preconceptions and limitations, and is more passionate about designing some factions than others. This resultsin some factions being locked in a restricted space, design- and fluff-wise. It can be seen in what we're getting about the Uprising, with YJ getting pushed in the direction of cartoonish regime. I think that Uprising and the next book will show us, whether these fears are justified, or if CB will manage to shake up their designs a bit.

• Communication issues. It was clearly visible with the JSA announcement. While some YJ players were getting overly dramatic, many were simply unsure and worried where their faction is heading. CB should post an article or video discussing direction of vanilla YJ over a week ago; it'd reassure many players. CB shouldn't expect everyone to be hyped about changes, and their communication should be directed at all groups of people, not only optimists. This issue is tied with limited viewpoint I described above: "if we don't see a problem, there is no problem".

 

So much this. I would be okay with the abundance of them though, if they just nerfed the bloody Redrum program. It's an absurd program and Killerhackers vs all other hackers would actually be decently balanced, especially AHD vs KHD, if you removed that bonkers program from the equation. I'm totally fine with the other upgrade programs though, like I want a KHD to be much better (not only on WIP) in the hands of an Interventor, Barid or Scylla than a generic Zero with KHD. As it is though, not even really good programs like Lightning are as good as Redrum, in active turn, because it's so freaking powerful.

Other things I dislike about CB is their recent miniature releases. They literally killed my wallet.

 

Of course I like the game mechanics, the minis, the background... So what do I not like about Infinity?

Classified objective cards: They are just annoying. They are random, easy to forget, too convoluted with extra rules, not atmospheric, frustrating, just plain awful. The worst thing CB has ever come up with.

Making things too complicated: The game mechanics are cool, but very often CB goes over the top with complications. I don't think all the weapons, skills, equipment, ammo types and hacking programs are strictly necessary. On top of that, CB confuses us with Data Trackers and ACs, etc etc. I think they would do well to streamline a little bit. Less is often more.

Insensitive unit names: We are just having the discussion about the Kempeitai, and there are more controversial units like that. I like the idea that no one is good, that all factions have skeletons in their closets. Gives the game a realistic feel to it. However, I believe it is unnecessary to include unit names and symbols that some players feel uncomfortable with for historic reasons.

ITS missions: They got a lot better, but they still feel very sterile and are sometimes difficult to read.

 

I think that Defensive Hacking Devices could be, if done right, a method for counteracting KHDs. Like, a program that gives all your hackers Burst 2 in ARO vs Hacking attacks could be cool, that sort of thing. Gadget programs enhancing other hackers instead of REMs, basically.

 

oh, that is another thing i don't like. Almost being forced by ITS to use hackers in Ariadna and not having access to repeaters. On top, all I get is either a defensive hacking device or a high SWC cost second rate hacker.

 

I agree with these soo much. Well actually its two things. Killer hacking devices are probably too good or too cheap, they have higher damage, better ammo, and a better utility program then AHDs, and AHDs cost more, alot more. Yeah KHDs can only kill hackers, well... AHDs can only effect Tags/Rems/HI, in effect I feel like most lists only have a handful of targets for either hacking device, but the ability to nuke a swiss guard's brains with dam 16 double trouble seems way better than immobilizing it for 1 turn or until reset at damage 13.

I want more rules clean up, and clarification. Special dodge is the worst term still in the rules, but there are a few other things that I think could use fixing, such as "non-offensive."

 

Wardriver would be fine if it only cost .5 SWC for the real hacking device. Sixth Sense on hackers is great.

 

I loathe fireteams, absolutely detest the buggers.

I was drawn by a skirmish game, where every model mattered, except for this rule that encourages bonus stacking. If the rule at least were reserved for stock line troops e.g. fusiliers, I could live with it, as it would help those ‘cheerleaders’ to play a role in the game.

I’m not a fan of the ‘hacking’ rules. Too much of it is useless - and cool programs like Spotlight are horribly ineffective.

Auto-include units like Mutts or Posthumans aren’t really my cup of tea.

But aside from this, it is a great game with great models.

 

Things I like:
Aristeia : it's a nice change every now and then.
The hype Train(toot toot!) and wild sensational speculation: its fun to see how close some of the community's guesses are, and also some of them make me feel normal ...

Things I don't like :
Tactical rocks. Junk, scraps of tag, and even dead or dying umbrahs don't theme the base. Rocks do. Debris in a desert or jungle is far easier to make look good than random rock formations in a city or a spaceship...
The continued absence of Laika, and RM100.

 

Like
- The well done background, I just really like the whole universe, even if it sometimes is a bit cartoonist, but the foundation is just really strong.
- Finally getting Mercenary Companies! Yeah!

Dislike
- The style the sculpting is devopping:
For me the sculpting lately gets very, very boring and I suspect it's because of the CAD. It all looks very similar and while I get that people like coherent designs it just feels that in general some of the originality of the designs is lost on the way. I guess tactical rocks/ bodies and blatant inspirations are part of this, but not only and somehow the original and dynamic sculpts are in decline or non existent lately. It's also all very mucho, sexist, video gamey to me. Infinity has a huge potential for all kind of sculpts and I hope they will manage to find a way back to sculpts that transport character and not only in the I am a "sexy chick"- or a "tough lad"-way. The fat yuan was a nice try to break out of the usual body types, but it's also just a caricature. A bid more diversity would be a nice touch here too. I suppose from a business point of view it's just saver to do those run of the mill sculpts, so I don't expect them to change it, but I am still hoping creativity will eventually get a chance at one point again.
- Nomads not having a Chain of Command unit.
- And I second the dislike for auto-include units! Some units should need a bit of reajustment.

 

Are people actually not taking Assault Hacking Devices? I still find them pretty important.

 

I like the vast majority of the game, it plays well. ITS is the best its been, I like limited insertion and really like direct action, especially in combination!
I love the new assembly on the new models, much much improved.
New weapons are cool too, keep em coming.
The upgrades for tags have been cool via its, I'd love it if that was finalised and made permanent in the next book.

Things I don't like;
Mutts. Ffs, just balance them, please.
Symbios for tohaa need a tweak too. Switch the bombs and mates profiles as a start, make it an actual choice between the profiles.
Design process with sculpts, so many oversights!! Where is the cg swc box?? Why has the Moran been left to rot?
Average TAGs in factions with good HI. Looking squarely at the guija and the raicho here, the gap between good hi and the tag is big in terms of points but small in terms of capability. Give em an upgrade like the oyoroi got to make it more useable or attractive over the HI options.
Spec ops. Its a rubbish system at present, needs an overhaul

 

Yeah I do think that TAGs need some more work. They just don't seem that great. Or rather, they don't seem that appealing.

I think that they are better now that they have Fatality L1 and the Pilots. Hope that Fatality L1 stays, it says something that they can all get a free skill that boosts the damage of their weapon and still not be super popular outside of some of the cheaper choices.

Incidentally, I think that's part of the problem. People do like using Geckos, Xeodrones, Scarface, Iguana, even the Tikbalang... typically the cheaper TAGs with more interesting loadouts are actually quite popular. It's ones like the Squalo where it's a 90+pt BS 15 HMG... Definitely good and effective, but not that exciting and kind of dominant in the list due to the cost, you really need to spending your orders on it, and you'll mostly be declaring MOV-BS Attack repeatedly. I think if more expensive TAGs were more interesting they'd get more play.

 

Oh this is a good thread. I like the idea of talking about stuff we like as well as dislike. Sometimes stuffs just about disliking.

What I Like:

Overall balance and gameplay! I keep coming back because on the whole the game feels very balanced, you always have a chance and you can always improve.

The art style and miniatures. The aesthetic with very few exceptions is just fantastic, it has character and I get the feeling the team have a lot of fun designing the different units.

Improvements - CB are constantly tweaking and improving things. But in a way I think is very pragmatic - small and limited changes. It can be easy to take some feedback from vocal people that things are not working and implement wholesale changes, because people (think they) like big, visible changes. But that can cause more problems than it solves. I LOVE that changes to ITS, and profiles tend to be small and incremental. But as a result, the system progressively gets better IMO.

Narrative changes: I like that the story evolves and that reflects on the table. I hate when creators get hamstrung into maintaining a sort of timeline limbo where people can use everything from every timeline. Change is painful when it affects you most, but it keeps things fresh, and I like fresh too.

Things I dislike:

Killer hacking devices currently being too good. Hoping for a minor tweak or nerf in the future.

Symbiomates and to a lesser degree fatality L2. Hoping we don't get too many more skills whose only counter or main feature is MOAR crits.

convuluted rulings. The FAQ system I feel could use some form of select committee, maybe one for each major language who propose and/or review FAQ answers. Hopefully this would lead to less confusing rulings or ones that lead to more questions.

 

Worry not, my fellow ISS dude, Bostria confirmed them for after summer. :)