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The Way of the Angry Monkey Fist - The New (post Third Offensive) Morat Tactica

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by DaRedOne, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Jam800

    Jam800 Well-Known Member

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    Hello Chaps,

    After having played a few games with Onyx Contact Force, I decided to jump over and give Morats a go.

    I'm currently a bit limited to what models I have available and am kinda looking for suggestions as to my next buys.

    I've played a couple of games with the following list and it faired ok...

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    RODOK Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    RODOK HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
    RODOK Lieutenant Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    RAKTORAK Combi Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]5
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    OZNAT Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 18)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    I kinda feel having the Raktorak in the Rodok link limits the mobility of the Rodok and so I'm toying with the idea of putting a Rodok paramedic in to replace the Raktorak - would be interested to here other folks views...
     
  2. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I think what you want is a Raktorak NCO in that link. It helps by using the LT order to reposition the fireteam at the end of your turn and make sure you keep all the more invaluable pieces out of danger. Remeber the Raktorak only idles if you declare Jump, and there's no need to jump everywhere. The Raktorak is also mov 4-4 instead of 4-2 and gets the same forward deployment option as the rodoks, so they won't really hinder your movement much.

    I'm unsure about running Oznat+hungries out of a link, though. I would rather drop the oznat for a pair of Ikadrons if possible.

    Edit: I messed around with your list and came up with something I would use:

    Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    RODOK Lieutenant Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    RODOK HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
    RODOK Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    ZERAT Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    There's no need for a vanguard hacker if you ain't buffing anything, so swapping him for a Zerat that can actually push buttons and (maybe) kill something is neat. I also dropped the oznat for a krakot and swapped the two pretas for a single R-drone. You get 1 less order in this list, but considering you're swapping 2 irregular for 1 regular, it may not be much of a loss.
     
    #62 DaRedOne, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  3. Jam800

    Jam800 Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough I was having a play around myself, based on your feedback and was looking at something similar to the list you've come up with.:smile:

    One thing I'm still getting my head around though, is how to set up the Groups (I ran a lot of limited insertion lists with OCF).

    Based on your example list, I'd have likely put the Krakot in Group 2 and the Zerat in Group 1. Is there a particular reason as to why you've done it the other way around...?

    Also I'm yet to see the value of the Krakot over the Daturazai, as the smoke grenades are so useful. Is it the meta chemistry that pushes the Krakot above and beyond the Daturazai in your opinion...?
     
  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Well, as I mentioned in the main topic, I actually think Krakots are better than daturazi at pretty much everything:
    - Krakots are more easily controllable;
    - they deal more damage (dual chainrifles vs single chainrifle or berzerk DA CCW vs MA3-4 AP CCW);
    - they cost the same, but can gain an extra skill from their Metachemistry;
    - they have forward deployment;

    Generally speaking, I prefer krakots unless I need the smoke for some reason. And there are good reasons for smoke, either to MSV stuff, or to more safely capture objectives in objective-heavy missions. Daturazi are probably the best unlinked smoke throwers in this game, or maybe tied with dog-warriors for that role.

    As for the group disposition, I usually like my krakots to be able to spend orders on, so putting one in group 1 makes sense. And since the zerat killer hacker is a turn two/turn three piece, I leave her on group 2 until I need her (when I spend a command token to switch her around).

    You could easily swap Doc Worm and the zerat's positions and I think the list would be better.
     
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  5. Jam800

    Jam800 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice!!

    I'll give the Krakot a go - I hadn't picked up on the fact that I could decline to use the impetuous order if I chose to, so that does make a huge difference!!!

    I must admit in the two games I've played I've found the smoke to be incredibly useful (and having come from running lists with no access to smoke, it's been quite novel), so have very quickly fallen in love with the Daturazi
     
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  6. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Updated the guide to start reflecting N4 changes. Please give me opinions and feedback and I will make sure to keep updating it as we play more and more.

    Cheers, mates!
     
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  7. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    I was pleasantly surprised how good Daturazi are now. heavy pistol is just a cherry on the cake, as with smoke you can potentially flank an enemy and find a good angle to shoot him without cover, out of LoF and ZoC, so hitting 2 dice on 11s, previously that was a bit of a pointless order usage, but with dmg14 shock pistol it's completely different now. Imagine if they retained stealth.

    speaking of vanguards, they do feel really lackluster, only serving as core filler. Though as a core filler for msv1 HRL suryat they become completely useless once suryat dies, as an ARO on their own they suck. Definitely gonna try at some point Daturazi core with Raktorak, although in that case I'll need some heavier hitters, as BS12 red fury with no mods point man in supposedly armour-heavy meta is bit underwhelming.
     
    #67 Lesh', Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  8. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    Great work as always. I love my Morats so your enthusiasm for them warms my heart.

    Just a couple of bits I noticed in there.
    Q-Drone still mentions having regular hackers put supportware on it.
    Daturazi and berserk. You mention about choosing FTF or normal rolls but with berserk its always a normal roll. Berserk now rolls in the old Assault rule too so its an entire order that allows you to Move full value and CC with a normal roll.

    On the subject of actually using Morats, I've played 1 game with them so far as a sectorial and used a few units in a vanilla force.
    The heavy pistols are a surprisingly useful addition. The made a mean ARO weapon once my fireteam reached spitting distance with the enemy.
    Berserk on the Dats is also a useful skill for them when you just need something dead and are willing to risk the Dat to get it done. You are guaranteed to inflict 2 DAM17 hits with a very high chance of getting a third in from a crit.
     
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  9. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Thanks for the input, mate. Gonna check those details and rework the stuff.

    Berserk is an optional skill. You can choose not to use it and make a face-to-face roll in CC. Sometimes that's the best idea to keep you dat from dying to some chump he could have crumpled fairly easily.
     
  10. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    I think I misunderstood your intent now I have read it back. You are talking about deciding whether to use it to invoke a normal roll or not on a on order where you start engaged I think.
     
  11. Smooth Criminal

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    Krakots are a bit better than they seem on just stat comparison to daturazi. They have a high chance of getting a climb/jump upgrade which makes them get into places daturazi normally cannot.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    You can’t use berserk on an order that you start engaged. It is now only available as a charge into melee. This means it also has a degree of anti-synergy with smoke.
     
  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I believe it'll be faq'd.
     
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  14. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Oh interesting, I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    Edit: I think I was thinking about impetuous, not starting in btb. In any case, lots of things are new and it’s hard to keep all the changes straight all the time!
     
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  15. Smooth Criminal

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    Fun fact, +1 B haris linked engineer or paramedic have about the same probability to heal the model with their shooting as the worm does up close. Can save you from including a non-veteran non-linkable model, also funny with jumpy rodok medic.
     
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  16. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    thanks for the updated review, made me more intrested in morats.

    i thought N4 chest mines don't explode on CC null (state) anymore?
     
    #76 dhellfox, Jan 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  17. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Thank you for bringing that up. I checked the rules and you're right. Updated the guide to reflect that.
     
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  18. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    Hello guys, I just played a league/tournament with morats and well, Im a little disappointed with the sectorial

    I ended with the same core in almost all the games, Suryat HRL and vanguards, sometimes with kornak too, Rodoks got nerfed and now they are more expensive, so it was out of question for me.
    About yaogats.. well 35 points for a guy with BS12 1W and not even shock inmune.. you can try a haris but its so expensive.. you can add raktoraks but you are not making it cheaper.. I really wanted to play the yaogat sniper, but for me its just not good enough. Is it too much to ask for wildcard like the grenzer??

    There are good things like the Raicho, rasyat, datus and suryats, but about fireteams.. It is terrible. Cmon, atleast let a second suryat join the vanguard core so I dont have to choose between the HRL and the HMG :rage::rage::rage:
     
  19. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Important questions:

    What were the missions?
    What were the lists you played in those missions?

    Then we can help you out ˆˆ
     
  20. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    the missions were: Decapitation, Rescue, a custom mission and countermeasures(400 pts and mercs)

    i cant find my list for Decapitation, but i won that one pretty easily so no problem with that

    about rescue, that was the only game with i didnt go for core with suryat with vanguards, i tried a core with datus, i know they are not the best for this mission (impetuous ) but well, I was against shavasti with noctifers so i tried to go with smokes... in the end sheeskin destroyed me haha
    this was the list: ( i didnt save the list, but i think it was this one)

    rescate
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Shock CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0.5 | 18)
    KORNAK (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Strategos L1) Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 45)
    RAKTORAK Red Fury / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 26)
    ZERAT (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Shock Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    RASYAT Spitfire, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37)
    SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( ) / CC Weapon, MULTI Pistol(+1B). (1.5 | 35)
    ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 24)
    RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    ZERAT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    4.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    For the 3 game it was a custom mision in a map with almost no long LoF and very focused in close combat, so it was hard to fill the SWC,I won that game, this was my list:

    1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3
    RASYAT Combi Rifle, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    RAICHO MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / CC Weapon. (1.5 | 82)
    [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( ) / CC Weapon, MULTI Pistol(+1B). (1.5 | 35)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 14)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    OZNAT (Sensor) Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / DA CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] SYNC PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)
    MORAT VANGUARD TREITAK (Infinity Spec-Ops) (WIP:14, Hacking Device(Hacker), Doctor, Engineer) Combi Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    4 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    and for the last one, countermeasures(400 and mercs), i wanted to bring a core of suryats, but again, no medics/engineer or FO profiles and the same for yaogats, so again, core of vanguards hahaha, this was the list:

    lista 1 partida final
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( ) / CC Weapon, MULTI Pistol(+1B). (1.5 | 35)
    KORNAK (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Strategos L1) Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 45)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 19)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    MORAT VANGUARD Combi Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18)
    RASYAT Spitfire, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37)
    RAICHO MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / CC Weapon. (1.5 | 82)
    [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    UHAHU (Hacker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2
    ZERAT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit, MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    7 SWC | 400 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    I won 3 games and lost 1, so i ended pretty high on the tournament, but i found myself trapped in the same core almost always, with no interesting wildcards to get some variety.
     
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