For sure, VIRD really rewards mixing up what's actually under that Camo Token. If your opponent is accustomed to Combi and Breaker Rifle rangebands, you can really mess them up with a Spitfire. If they expect a Burst 2 LRL from a Helot, you can give them a nasty surprise with a Burst 4 Red Fury. VIRD doeesn't have a huge volume of Camo tokens, but every token is great for presenting a diverse threat. Punishing your opponent for making the wrong assumption, or forcing them to be ultra-cautious because they don't know what you're packing, are both really good ways to leverage the VIRD camo game.
Just for reference, here's a list with the ZC Spitfire If you're trying to minimize Specialists too, you can trade that EB Paramedic for a different EB pretty easily. The reason I bother with the Fusilier Hacker at all is for Classified Coverage, the Victory Points from the Mulebots, and the excellent versatility/utility of Fugazi. I could just buy 4 Fusiliers for group 2, but the versatility of those REMs is great. Varuna Immediate Reaction Division ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ZULU-COBRA Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) GROUP 2 7 1 ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ECHO-BRAVO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, WildParrot / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Hello Varuna thread, I am a recently returning player to Infinity (played QK/ Corregidor from early to late 2nd ed.) and picked up Varuna for a change. I was wondering if any of you have been able to use a nice durable 5 man HI (or mostly HI) link or with the TAGs. I currently use mostly “button pushers” and I will admit, despite the fact that I am liking how this army plays, I sometimes miss my mobile brigada pain train and “janissary” link.
Quite like the Zapper Squalo particularly as Data Tracker. A solo Orc joining the Fusilier/Kamau Link is also nice to have. Full Orc Links have the same problems as the Mobile Brigada/Janissary Pain Trains, if you don't mind that they're more of the same and pretty straightforward.
@JonTurner333 ORCs are going to bring some nice toys compared to Brigada or Janissaries. In particular, their Varuna division gets access to Stealth, which is very nice for a maneuvering Heavy Infantry link. You'll get some unique weapon options too, like the Fuerbach, or the SMG on Patsy. Consider adding Kamau or Fusiliers to decrease the overall cost, and add some utility. Even just adding two Fusiliers is going to save you ~50-60 points, letting you focus on getting more support units for your link. Zulu Cobra KHD and Jammers for defense, and a Faerie Dust-capable standard or EVO Hacker will help too. 5-man linked ORCs also have the raw Ballistic Skill to leverage Patsy's Nimbus Plus grenades in a straight-up gunfight too, which is pretty excellent.
Thank you for your advice @Teslarod and @barakiel. I see this is going to be more like QK with the “janissary” link team where a janissary may actually be a hafza except it will be open info now. Not that this matters, as my opponents quickly learned ways to tell which members were probably hafzas. One more question: is it going to be worth it to buy the PanO dronbots or will they be replaced soon like the Haqq and Aleph remotes were? And can they build all the options (fugazi, pathfinder, clipper, sierra)? I only used baggage bots and tsyklons/ lunokhods so I am unfamiliar with the older kits.
@JonTurner333 People optimistically wishlist for REM resculpts, but there's been nothing confirmed about that. Ultimately, you probably won't regret owning them. Even if they came out right away, they'd still be 3-4 months out, because we already know most of the upcoming releases. And yes, you can build everything except for the Mules (minesweeper, EVO, etc) because they have their own box. Note that the Dronbot box can only build one of each type, so if you want two Fugazi, a single box won't have the parts for it. Fugazi are the bot I most commonly use, so my simple solution is to just leave all the accessories off of a Dron in order to identify it as a Fugazi.
Thanks again @barakiel. Guess I’ll be getting some DronBot boxes. The only other purchases I am unsure of are the fusiliers special weapon box and the old trauma doc and machinist box with palbots. I usually use Kamau for link team specialists and special weapons carriers due to their bs 13, wip 13 and mimetism, as well as the fact that I prefer the EVO Mulebot to a regular hacker. I also don’t like the trauma doc and machinist box but want the palbots. Do you know if any substitutions for them?
Hmm. That Support box with Trauma Doc and Machinist is on the top of many PanO players' wishlists for resculpts. Similar to Dronbots though, nothing's been confirmed on the release schedule. If you were really averse to it, you could use the PanO Crabbot as a Palbot, and use pretty much any mini you like as a suitable Machinist or Trauma Doc proxy. That might be more trouble than it's worth though. I imagine that support box will get redone in 2020, but we don't know for sure. As for the Fusilier heavy weapons... I used to use the Fusilier SWC profiles all the time in NCA, but VIRD's a completely different story. The Kamau HRL is such a great, cheap, versatile unit. It's good as a backup active turn weapon, it's good as an ARO piece in case your MSV2 Sniper's facing a lot of White Noise, and it can even use Suppressive Fire. It's got 4 different ammunition types, can be +3 from 0-32 with solid weaponry, and I find it basically overshadows all Fusilier heavy weapon in VIRD because its point cost is so inexpensive. The one Fusilier SWC option that routinely makes my lists is the Fusilier Hacker, but if you like the EVO more, that's good too.
Quick edit: For Fusilier heavy weapons, I do use the Fusilier Light Grenade quite a bit in VIRD. Speculative Fire is a really useful mechanic that Kamau can't really replicate, and 14 points + 1 SWC is pretty cheap for cost. The grenade isn't in the Fusilier SWC box, so that's a bit of a moot point. I use the character from the Outrage box as my Fusilier LGL. If you want to add that weapon to your arsenal, consider converting one up, or hunting for that character (her name is Emily) in a split-box deal.
When pressed about a new PanO support box at Gen Con Bostria said that something was coming but he couldn't say what. After the Q&A he dropped the first N4 reveal. Personally I quite like the Steel Phallus support pack, the Dactyl doctor is especially faction neutral and the Yudbots are adorable.
I see. Thanks again everyone for your replies. I guess I will use the PanO HVT for now, paint a red cross on his briefcase (don't think I've ever played a mission with an HVT or will soon so its fine) and paint the Machinist's Zondbot I own that I never wound up using blue and put a PanO symbol on it. @barakiel I generally do not have the SWC for another special weapon in my links, so I have never used the Kamau HRL. I will have to take out the Zulu Cobra Spitfire and replace it with something else to do this, which I do not like the sound of as it usually kills something nice, but will try when I get a chance. I am also pretty good at getting single miniatures from sets (I have the Kamau HMG but not icestorm or its expansion) so I will look into a fusilier with a grenade launcher. I have one unpainted fusilier so I could always convert that one. @colbrook thanks for writing that, I am not entirely up on what has been said by Bostria and others at CB about releases coming in the far future.
So this past weekend we had our biggest local tournament so far with 26 players and 5 games over 2 days. I ended up third which was a count back with 3 major wins, 1 minor win and 1 loss (last round top table). Missions were Countermeasures, Capture & Protect, Firefight, Safe Area and Unmasking in that order. List 1 used for Capture & Protect (10-0 win) and Firefight (10-0 win) SPB List 1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) GROUP 2 5 TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ECHO-BRAVO Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25) CROC MAN MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 38) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army List 2 used for Countermeasures (10-6 win), Safe Area (8-3 win) and Unmasking (0-10 loss) SPB List 2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37) GROUP 2 5 CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 3.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I felt really comfortable with the first list and found it did one thing that I had previously struggled with Varuna of being aggressive with some punch outside of my 3rd of table really well and performed wonderfully List 2 I struggled every game with, it was very much a compromise list trying to do a lot. Patsy is great but she was having to do a lot of heavy lifting in every mission and when she wasnt performing neither was I. Unmasking in particular is a very interesting beast I find for Varuna and I had to adjust from my usual way of building for Unmasking using an ORC HMG as datatracker simply because it would have left me in a poor position for Countermeasures. Happy to discuss more as people see fit
@osoi no helots is an interesting direction to take Varuna. What was the rationale, and how'd it work out?
It was interesting to say the least. I have been relying heavily on Helots and did this both as an experiment to see how things would look and perform without them and also in specific reaction to the Tactical Window modifier we were running for this event. My Varuna lists generally look to be 14-15 regular orders plus 2 Helots so clearly would not work in this format and including them was going to cut into the efficiency of my order pool too much List 1 I felt comfortable with the absence of Helots as I was able to be aggressive and had other tools that put my opponents on the back foot so I didnt really miss the added layer of defense. List 2 was a completely different story and I every game I ran foul of having a flanked starting to get rolled and put me in a really precarious position that I was just able to save most of them time but it was definitely myself under stress to recover rather than my opponent in having to try and wade through ARO's. I do feel I was missing out not including them but it did open my eyes a bit on how I need to defend better when not being able to rely on such good defensive units, so would I recommend people run without Helots, Yes but primarily as a thought experiment and to make yourself a better player rather than a general thing to do.
That makes a lot of sense, on both counts, especially as a concession to tactical window. Interesting, thanks :)
I also ditched Helots for a tactical window event this season. It was interesting to see how it freed up points and SWC for some less-used defensive units, notably the Sierra and the Croc Sniper for my own lists. As a long-time fan of the Hexa Sniper, that Croc Sniper was particularly good.
Cutter Lt Limited Insertion. (Machinist DT, Zulu Liason) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 CUTTER Lieutenant MULTI HMG / . (3 | 115) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () CROC MAN MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 38) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ZULU-COBRA (Forward Observer) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Just playing around with a Cutter list and wanted some feedback. Looking at the Megaladron profile just made me think I want to play with TAGs and Ariadna is bust on that so here's a Cutter list. You've got a Cutter Lt - the lack of TO/hidden deployment is a real risk factor but these days a lot of folks like going second anyway and hopefully the Kamau MSR, Croc MSR and Jammer can keep the big 'initial -3 Camo' S7 token safe if they want to take first turn. Lt for the extra order since you're living and dying by this guy anyway, and I had an extra 0.5 SWC free. Maybe I lose Turn 1 when the opponent just guns for the S7 camo token - life's a journey. Kamau MSR over the Clipper (think daboarder's cutter list) - there's no doctor, but if the Kamau goes down (to a non-crit), I'm of the view he's going down to dead anyway since he'll be eating some White noise Assisted fire 5man core dakini hmg nonsense. Also, the Kamau MSR is just so much better than a clipper so for the one or two turns that he lives, it's worth paying the points even without doctor support. If (when!) the Kamau goes down, the 4-man fusilier link can show a bit of chuzptah and just help screen for the Cutter with their SSL2 rifles. Every little bit helps. Croc Man MSR for ARO stability. I really like this piece and since this list doesn't have room for helots, this X-visor could do well for the 0-8 quickscope, though it's not ideal. Really like this piece (again). Could potentially replace with a TR HMG since I've got an engineer, but my view is that if they can kill a Croc, they can kill a TR even easier. The uncertainty of TO is something I really appreciate, especially since I'm doubling down on the Cutter Lt who will lose his hidden. The two Zulu's are there b/c of course. No KHD which is troubling - but is what it is. Would have liked a Croc-man FO, etc for the midfield mines, but we're going Cutter or bust. Machinist Varuna division is actually exceptional value, +2 points for mimetism and stealth (and aqautic lol)? Nutso. He's certainly not the world's greatest 'datatracker' in the world, but hopefully he can swing in to do whatever necessary tasks once the 6-4 cutter has killed any material threats. Would have loved some helots/tech-bee, but no space, points or SWC. Shame. Also the Limited insertion state is valuable. If you really wanted the doctor/engineer combo and to not have the Cutter Lt (instead going fusie lt + NCO) - you could swap out the Zulus for Patsy and a Doctor like so, Patsy DT + Liason + Full Doctor/Engineer support ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () CROC MAN MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 38) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37) MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army but honestly - this second one just feels freaking bad to play. The Zulu's are just too good for what they do, and I'm of the view it's always better to kill than to heal. Also you lose sensor so there's that. Personally, I think either ASA or even OSS (due to the 'free points' that Posthumans give you - and you don't even run into the doctor/engineer problem like here, since in OSS TAG lists, they've got the 10 point engineer, their main guns are all repairable, all their bio units are generally either NWI or Dogged sans the Danvasas so they dc doctor presence anyway) are better TAG factions, but only Varuna gives you a Marker State TAG. Moreover, Varuna is by its nature a defensive faction that struggles interdicting into enemy territory - there aren't many solo pieces in the game that are as hard to kill as a Cutter. For all the shit they catch - TAGs, and especially the Cutter, are one of the most visually striking and compelling elements of Infinity. The visual design of the Cutter is what drew me into this game, so it feels good to finally be running one of the classic pieces of infinity.
Also - if you simply MUST have helots: Cutter + Croc FO + Tech-Bee Helots (Machinist DT, Croc-Man Liason) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 CUTTER Lieutenant MULTI HMG / . (3 | 115) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GROUP 2 3 HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army gives up hidden for croc-man, but it's worth it for the mines and the X-visor suppression. There is a world of difference between a Croc FO and a Zulu. Edit: There's also an option to drop the Croc FO, Palbot and Tech Bee for a Zulu FO and Doctor for the full support team and less 'wasted points'. What I'm grappling with is what protects your boy the Cutter better - is it the Croc MSR or the 3x Helot Screen? Thinking about it, I'm actually liking the 3x Helot screen a bit more - as it helps me set up a bit of a forward base for free as the helots push up 8" per turn in camo with the Cutter.
Cutter + Patsy + Full Support Team (Patsy DT + Liason) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37) ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) GROUP 2 2 HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Scrap the above couple lists - what are your thoughts on this (again I'm hamfisting the cutter in). Moved away from Cutter Lt so now I can use it like the 115 point suicide piece it is. Patsy's plethora of skills here is actually pretty good - she's the durable datatracker/liason officer combo who's terrible at killing, but that's okay b/c the Cutter exists. Also her Nimbus can be useful in a pinch for both the cutter and zulu, though not ideal. NCO with the fusilier lt is always useful. Also made room for 2 helots - I really like these guys for the short-ranged cover that can't be provided by the big broad strokes of the Kamau MSR.
