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The Varuna Immediate Reaction Division: A Tactica

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    Yes, I agree. In NCA now you have several options of specialists keeping the superior firepower. You could design a list with 15 orders easily with 5 or 6 specialists an include a beast like Swiss Guard HMG (or AHD which is also excellent as specialist and short/mid-range gunfighter), or an Hexa KHD or a couple of CSU and auxilias for instance and include fugazzis for protect your DZ, a link team with visors a ML and still have points and SWCs to fulfill others aspect of your strategy...

    In Varuna it is a little different, because of the nature of the army. There are no big HIs (like the Swiss Guard), or classic elements like visors or mines, etc... That is interesting because it makes it different from the rest of the PanO sectorials, VIRD seems more like a "razor" than a hammer like MO or NCA (with its high technology), and I consider it less flexible than SAA. In no way I want to indicate that VIRD is a bad army, I have really enjoyed using it. But he has his difficulties in this balance between attack and specialists as we have said. For me the ZC KHD and Crockman FO seem to be excellent options to start when you need good specialists, the rest to rely on Jammers and fireteams.
    On the other hand, now @Ayadan you mention the TAGs, have anyone used the Cutter or Squalo in your lists? if we talk about hitting hard, VIRD has one of the best of PanO TAGs, but at the same time very expensive in points and SWC.
     
    #81 Cadmo, Jul 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I've used VIRD Squalo Zapper in one list when I tried VIRD just for getting a first feeling. It is an excellent troop but really needs Patsy or a Kamau to help it at combi range. The biggest problem I had with TAGs in VIRD is that it is hard to find them vanguard units to clean the midfield for them like NCA, ASA or MO can have. No Bagh Maris or Bolts Haris, no Dart or Black Friar Albedo. So, you need to choose if the TAG will do all this work alone (doable for a Zapper Squalo depending on what you're facing) or you use ZC or CM to do it. Problem is that both those units have other roles to fulfill in the first way. Maybe the Montesa is the key if you're going to field Cutter (could be tested). Squalo can do a lot of things alone but having a little babysitter with it to help it against repeaters and nasty short range AROs can be nice.
     
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  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Cadmo
    I just want to point out that you're doing a very nice job articulating the differences between the PanO Sectorials. As you say, VIRD does operate with some very interesting considerations... Considerations that aren't really apparent from the outside. They only really become visible once players are planning for particular missions, trying to include all the options that they need for success. The VIRD staples like Kamau MSV2 + Jammers + Helots are great, but they don't help you do the mission, and once you pay for those nice tools, there aren't that many points left to build for the mission itself.
     
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  4. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    Regarding the TAGs I agree... at least where I play, tables have a high density of scenery and using a TAG equipped with long-range weapons makes the opponent hide his units in reactive (which is good but not enough), and avoid it or fight at short distances in active turn. So it is true that we need something to protect the Squalo and principally the Cutter to short-range combat. Probably jammers again could be also an option, or Montesa as @Ayadan said (but this is an expensive option in my opinion), but not so sure to take the big jump from the "pure snake eaters" (30-35 points maximum) to the supremacy of the TAGs.

    And it is true what you say @barakiel , Sometimes, because you want to add all those distinctive units of the sectorial, you are a little short of points for other important things. There is the balance you mention that must be achieved. For example tomorrow I play against TAK, power pack and I'm evaluate which are the best strategy. I look to the side and I have SAA (mines, many visors L1, tons of fire, etc ...) and I'm tempted to use them... but I think how to take advantage of the strengths of Varuna to fulfill the mission and stop a full-camo army.
     
    #84 Cadmo, Jul 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  5. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Don't get me wrong here, I see the points people are making.

    But, at the same time, there's a lot of territory from where your Swiss Guard Assault Hacker starts and where you want your Specialist to be in most missions, territory a Croc Man doesn't have to cover. And that Croc Man is a lot cheaper, while being just as good at the whole "Specialist" thing.

    And Croc Men are pretty solid combat pieces too, especially once you account for that price differential.

    Does Varuna have the same "top quality" choices NCA does? No.

    But NCA (even after the updates) still has to prioritise Specialists over firepower if they want to be mission effective. The Swiss Guard suggestion proves that point, as there aren't many competitive lists out there with TWO Swiss in them.
     
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  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    It's a shame because double and triple Guards lists are really deadly and effective. I know that our ex-top French player, Shas'O Kassad, before Arkille took him the crown, loved to field two Swiss Guards (LM+AHD) in at least one of his lists for any tournament.
     
  7. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    Does anybody have a good Cutter list for a mission like Firefight? I'm struggling to fit everything I want in a list. I think Zulu Cobras are really strong in this mission because of the forward deployment on top of the 16 in deployment zone, but I also feel like an Echo Bravo is necessary to take advantage of the Designated Landing Area. Any advice?
     
  8. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Echo Bravo cannot take advantage of the designated landing area.
     
  9. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    They can walk on into the enemy deployment zone, and *that* is beneffiting from the Designated Landing Area.
     
  10. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    Designated Landing Area means that they can walk on the enemy board edge, like Van Zant
     
  11. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    ECHO-BRAVO Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    But this one is a lot funnier:
    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    SQUALO (Armored Cav.) (Varuna Div.)(Fireteam: Duo, Aquatic Terrain) MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / AP Heavy Pistol. (2.5 | 96)
    [​IMG] undefined undefined / undefined. (undefined | undefined)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    5.5 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  12. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Right, forgot completely that part, I would not use a cutter if I went for that approach, I would go for echos and Zulus and infiltrating crocs.
     
  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    So it seems that VIRD got a small nerf as Patsy+Kamau HMG+Machinist is no longer valid Haris link.
     
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  14. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    As a Varuna player i say we can survive that without issues.
     
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  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Yea, the undertone was that while this haris was veery nice VIRD has more than enough tools left to do their things ;)
     
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  16. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    totally agree
     
  17. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    So what will you guys be using in your Patsy Haris from now on? Add a Kamau Paramedic? Go full ORC with an HMG and BSG?
     
  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I feel like Patsy + Kamau Paramedic + Kamau HMG/HRL is the better build now.

    But it's enough more expensive than the Machinist version that I think it'll pause a few in the build step before committing now.

    Previously it was a very easy "go to" option.
     
  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Quick note: I finally made the edit that removes linkability between Patsy and the VIRD Machinist. I think I covered everything, but let me know if I missed a spot.
     
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  20. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    Changing the topic... I know the jammers are very strong weapons, someone even considering some of the best weapon of the moment, and even that unbalance the game...

    I played jammers (at the beginning one and now two), but I never have this tremendous effect over my enemies... Actually, I feel like jammers works better as a psychological factor than real ... I probably haven't been smart enough to use them, but I usually use them near of critical targets and without LoF (over a roof or very hide) especially in a reactive turn. It is true that attacking without LoF is excellent, but it has not been so devastating as I expect.

    Something that I tried now to enhance its "tactical effect" of controlling an area, is to deploy it in camo near of a bulleteer in suppression and with assisted fire, and also include a ZC KHD to creates a strong denial area. I try to use the superior firepower of the remote and preventing any enemy attack without LoF with the jammer, and if a hacker tries to attack the remote I use the ZC KHD. All of this plus Helots, Kamau sniper etc...

    This is a very specific use as there can be many others, so how would you use them to maximize their effect?
     
    #100 Cadmo, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 1:35 AM
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