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The Varuna Immediate Reaction Division: A Tactica

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Manfred_VR

    Manfred_VR Well-Known Member

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    So, here are my last two tournament lists, played at the italian satellites :

    Firefight
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    ECHO-BRAVO Boarding Shotgun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]3
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ZULU-COBRA Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Safe Area/Frostbyte


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]2
    CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZULU-COBRA Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  2. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    Nice list... , I never use the ZC spitfire, I always prefer the ZC visorX (No CAP and shcok ammo) to add a Kamau HMG in the link, but looks good, How do you use this profile? , and how was the tournament?
     
  3. Manfred_VR

    Manfred_VR Well-Known Member

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    The tournament was really a beautiful event, game tables were amazing, from an aesthetic point of view, but not very functional for the game, I closed 9/40, 2 won and one lost, 6 points with 18 obj., ironically, I lost the only match against ISS just on one of the worst game table, with no buildings and too much trees.
    Anyway, I woke up at 5.30 o'clock on Sunday morning just to play this Satellite, a good performance, considering everything.
    About the lists, personally I believe they're amazing and don't need changes, 'cause my defeat was caused by the field and bad dice, Zulu with Spit is really good in my opinion, in my first match vs Tohaa was great, a Camo spitfire is always good ;).
     
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  4. Clown_Parade

    Clown_Parade New Member

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  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Clown_Parade
    Thanks, much obliged. Was glad to have a good event for putting all these ideas into practice.
     
  6. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Member

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    Here are my lists with which i placed 5 on Saint-Petersburg satellite (83 patricipants) with three major wins, one minor win and one loose (deployed poorly and lost a lot of assets to 4(!) Yuan-Yuan in a game against Ikari company).

    Orc (fuer)+kamau (hmg)+fus (lgl).
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1 9 / 1
    ORC (Varuna Div.) (Multiterrain: Aquatic/Jungle, Stealth) Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 43)
    KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    ECHO-BRAVO Boarding Shotgun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

    GROUP 22
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    ZULU-COBRA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    18 minis/kamau sniper and hrl/haris
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1 9 / 1
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    KAMAU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    ZULU-COBRA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    GROUP 23
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Varuna is a blast. I feel so satisfied playing it after all those years of pain and suffering playing with MO.
     
  7. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    Changing the subject a bit, after playing Varuna for a while, I realized that it is hard for me to add more than 4 or 5 specialists, of which 1 or 2 are good (Crockman FO and ZC KH/FO: forward deployment, good WIP, skills and weapons, and camouflage ). In other sectorials of PanO as SAA and MO the specialists come in a good amount and it is very natural to incorporate them, for example, 2 Nagas, regular (with WIP 13), evos, etc. or in MO, santiagos (KH and SO) order sergeants (FO, paramedic), hospitallers, KoHS (chain of command), etc ... But in Varuna, I find it a bit hard to add them and I usually have use tech bee or fusiliers that are good, but not the best option, or if you use a haris the classic Patsy with the machinist could be an option. FInally, I don't like the Echo for his WIP, I prefer more aggressive loadouts.

    Of course, it depends on the mission but approx. how many specialists and what are the most common ones that you use?
     
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  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Cadmo
    It's definitely a tricky question. When I run heavy button pushing, I typically have two high-quality specialists (Croc FO, ZC KHD as you say) and then 2-3 secondary Specialists. It's a big component of VIRD... Like you mention, you can run Croc Specialists who tend to be just as useful as any other profile, thanks to their mines. I also like the Tech Bee, especially because her cheap little Irregular Order is nice for the Xenotech.

    When deciding between Snake Eaters though, picking the Specialists usually means you're ignoring some other very good and useful profiles, some of which are critical for stopping the enemy from pushing buttons too (like the ZC Jammer.) It's a tricky balance, and I don't think there's necessarily a "right way" to go about it at this point.
     
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  9. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    I think 4 or 5 specialists is a very good spot as-is for Varuna. I usually take 1, sometimes 2 KHD Zulu-Cobra. Fusi specialists, patsy (sometimes), Varuna Engineer, and a doctor are generally staples aswell.

    imo given the spread of our sectorials Varuna isn't the best for specialist heavy missions. for example, just the inclusion of Highly Classified in my local tournament line up was enough to make me play SAA and I feel as though it was the right decision. now only if I could get the guys to not tease me about my long hair...
     
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  10. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    You guys never use Kamau specialists? I find them pretty effective in Vanilla already, why don't you play them in VIRD too?
     
  11. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    FO and Paramedic are overshadowed for me by the machinist. He is way cheaper + d-charges with only -1 to BS.

    And the Hacker is so expensive i can basically bring a FO Croc Man for only 4 more points. Or A Zulu-Cobra killer Hacker for even the same points. And that dude has Forward Deployment, Camo and a breaker combi on top of everything the Kamau brings.
     
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  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    But the Hacker is very useful in duo with a Squalo or in ORC Haris, no? Stealthy Hackers, even standard ones, seem pretty useful nowadays.
     
  13. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    I see your perspective. Since i basically never field orcs or a squalo i usually have no need for the support.

    Last time an orc made it into my List was for a tourny with the Grid to destroy those antennas. I would probs also bring a single one for objective room missions but i haven't played those in a while. The haris is a huge no-no for me.

    But if you field those i see how the Kamau can be a nice toolbox.
     
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  14. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Well, it took me some time to finally find the courage to test ORCs in NCA after they shown up in the sectorial. The truth is, while they were only stats and weapons, those were bloody effective when applied correctly. Tried them in ASA as well and I arrived to the same conclusion. The fact that VIRD proposes a Haris + Tinbot option is very handy when you want your Haris with a Hacker, the Tinbot and the Heavy Weapon.

    Was thinking about trying something like this when I finished to paint my VIRD:
    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    KAMAU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    ORC (Varuna Div.) (Fireteam: Haris, Multiterrain: Aquatic/Jungle, Stealth) Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 38)
    ORC (Varuna Div.) (Multiterrain: Aquatic/Jungle, Stealth) Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 43)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    ZULU-COBRA (X Visor) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  15. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    That is the point @barakiel . Several of the profiles of VIRD specialists also have interesting aggressive options such as ZC or EB or even crockman (perhaps the latter are the most dedicated to fulfilling missions).

    IMO, the central issue is that VIRD is more defensive, so finding troops to attack is more difficult/limited and sometimes they coincide with the specialist profiles. For me to use many points in a "defensive block" (Helots, ZC jammers, Kamau sniper, crockman miner) + doctor and specialists leave me few points to prepare a strategy to attack.

    The list that you propose @Ayadan , is very interesting and includes troops that I have not used much, the Orc haris is very powerful, I used it once in SAA and I have nothing but to thank our "standard HIs". But in this case, I have the same feeling, the use of more defensive weapons, the Feuerbach is more flexible, but in general, I see it more reactive, and with 3 specialists, with for me is the minimum. How do you use this list?
     
    #75 Cadmo, Jul 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  16. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Cadmo
    Finding that balance of defense, attack and Specialists is 100% the major challenge of VIRD list building. No doubt about it. I tend to favor heavy defense, because I find that my gameplan can go very wrong if I don't keep my Orders pool stable. Having an opponent rip apart the Fusilier backline is just too dangerous.

    As a result, I actually play my VIRD a bit like I played my NCA:
    Incremental advance, try to take ground and then lock the table with dominant AROs, moving units up to hunt a section of the table, claim it, then aggressively deny it to the enemy via dominant AROs and Jammer.

    I find most of my opponents just won't fall for an EB or Peacemaker rush, and while I still use both of those units frequently, I find there aren't too many situations where they're rampaging through someone's DZ. As a result, I've shifted towards list building that's more methodical and defensive, and less Hail Mary.
     
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  17. Cadmo

    Cadmo Active Member

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    Thanks for the explanation @barakiel, I'm interested in trying this more defensive and gradual way of advancing at the table, for sure it is very consistent and it is apparently the characteristic of VIRD.

    On the other hand, it is true that an EB and a bulleteer / pacemaker will not win you a game, but they can open a space to enter with a core or haris, or your specialists, etc ....

    I like to go first and enter with a remote or a ZC (X visor, Spitfire) or a haris, eliminate simple things, discounting orders from the rival and go for their specialists. Then protect me by hiding my attack pieces + suppression and cover me with the sniper, Helots, a jammer and fugazzis. Then from the second turn, go through the objectives and see the possibility of EB's entry (I do not always use it because the opponent ends up predicting his appearance by an edge), all of that in 14 regular orders approx.
     
  18. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    How I see it is the Haris is there to make most of the active work with ZC here to provide fire support by picking out ARO troops you want to not fight with your main attack piece: Flash pulse bots and Warcors and other light ARO pieces or equipped with non lethal long range weapons like ABH with Akrylat Kanone or Tanko with Blitzen. They are also my back up attack pieces so I'll try to preserve them.
    As said, the Haris will do the main part of the active work, securing objectives and cleaning as much as possible before retreating in a secure place, far away from TO infiltrated KHD if I suspect some to join the party.
    You can notice that Kamau MSV2 and ORC feuerbach are swappable if needed.
    The second group is here to take as much of the opponent active turn in the face as possible and to heal and purify the first group.
    But the main thing is to be able to adapt to the situation. This is what I thought when making the list but it is quite adaptative to what you'll face.
     
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  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Yeah, I think the specialist balance is one aspect where veterans of NCA will find list building for Varuna easier.

    They will be used to the same challenges in balancing their specialist investment vs their firepower.
     
  20. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    And yet different because NCA had access to AHD Swiss Guard who his a beat stick and a specialist in the same time while Auxilias are defensive units and Specialist too. I never felt so much pressed to choose between firepower and specialist than in VIRD. So, focusing on defensive pieces means that your opponent will have few units to kill in order to prevent you to do anything regarding the scenario on those where you need Specialists for everything. Except if you bring a TAG. Currently, PanO TAGs are attack pieces, specialists and don't give a specialist kill at the same time if the Crabbot is still onboard. VIRD ones cost a lot in a sectorial with a lot of good choices at 30+ points, so fielding them can be a challenge for a lot of players but they have a great potential at solving this specialist problem.

    At the same time, at each update, NCA lost a bit of those N2 restrictions and we were given more flexibility. Now, NCA doesn't give this frustrating choice anymore. It's even more prevalent now Machinist can link and Bolts and Devas have good aggressive Specialist options.
     
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