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The use of remotes in HS armies

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by prophet of doom, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me for needing to sleep, and having a sleep cycle off from the local daylight.

    My local PD replaced their stepvans with MRAPs when the US Army started selling MRAPs Surplus.

    You seem to be thinking that a "SWAT truck" is a Lenco Bearcat:
    [​IMG]
    This beast is 'only' 18,000lbs, but doesn't have the cargo capacity to carry a TAG.



    Here:
    [​IMG]
    What's that big truck on the far right? Hey, it's a Stepvan of some flavor. While that particular one looks like it's been modified for Command Post duties, I've seen lots of others that are a large cargo box, usually stuffed full of the various specialty gear that SWAT teams (or the riot squad) may need.
     
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  2. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    Tanks are fixed profile (and wide). Meanwhile TAGs dodge, probably by being able to squat a bit, so pretty much like modern tanks... unless going all silly reage fist on top of whatever tactical crap they can find.

    General or Boston Dynamics?

    SWAT series (not the remakes), 70s or so... they had one older. The patrol cars should be the others in that photo, and the SWAT teams should get the Abrams that are rusting in storage. Special (Super?) Weapons (recoiless rifles and stingers) And Tactics (stomp thru houses with the tanks). *giggle* Yeah, let's see in a decade or two.

    Small buses or recreational vehicles would do too, all they need is too look like one, even if they are fake with reinforced suspension, better engine, etc to carry TAGs.
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Usually takes too long to get ready for use.

    It sounds crazy, but it apparently takes about 72 hours for a Stryker transported by air to be combat-ready, and 'all' that you need to do is re-mount the remote weapons station.

    I might believe initial entry is done with the TAG disassembled, but once you're in the city you'd re-assemble the thing as fast as you can to make ready for operations.

    At least for this purpose, the Su Jian has a big advantage over a TAG, since you could stuff a Su Jian into the back of a Mazda B4000/Ford Ranger.
     
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  4. Jassal2.0

    Jassal2.0 Member

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    Are you sure you're not getting mixed up with the remounting of slat armor on the Stryker? No way it takes three days to roll one off a cargo plane and make it ready for use.

    Anyways, just like old school aircraft carriers and naval aircraft, I wouldn't be surprised if TAGs have design considerations for modularity and ease of dis/assembly in situ. Plus, it's a lot easier, and more discrete, to smuggle parts than the whole she-bang. That, or *everyone* is paying off the police and the Human Sphere is just anarchy
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Possible, but my friend in the Army (Stryker platoon leader and company XO in Afghanistan) said the biggest pain in the butt was remounting the stupid RWS. Not the slat armor.

    Edit: Plus, if you can stuff the entire TAG into one or two air cargo containers, there's not much paying off the local police. You have a 'looks-like-a-FedUp-Truck' to haul the TAG around in the city, and you had the Customs Pre-Cleared cargo box(es) arrive at the local FedUp facility.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    For deniable ops, the key is still whether you can make the transport vehicle look civilian (or humanitarian aid - just remember not to paint it UN White too close to the border so the paint has time to dry). Quick search for the maximum weight capacity of a Volvo transport truck, even the smaller trucks used in US/EU, and yeah you should be able to fit at least one Maghriba into such a truck and be able to pretend you're delivering glass panels to a construction site.
     
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  7. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    Don't be silly,

    TAGs can't go Prone.

    :-P
     
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  8. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Which is kind of lame, they should be able to. Oh well.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The problem is not getting down. It's getting up and not crushing important bits with their weight, nor smother to death the human/morat pilot (well, those who have one).

    The Xeodrones, Overdrones and the Avatar should be able to, but it's the general rule, and I assume you cannot classify them as infantry... kinda stupid how any hacker/AHD/H+... can "mind control" a Xeodron or Overdron, btw XD
     
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  10. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing General Political Department

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    It may not be an example of the most common vehicle, but there are some large civilian vehicles on the streets of the Human Sphere even if one discounts cargo transports, as seen with @Antenociti 's FastPanda... less food truck, more mobile restaurant. There are images there comparing its size with a TAG, you couldn't quite do it standing but seated you could manage a darned TAG squadron, and while this is pure conjecture the concept meshes with the iota-scarcity economy to paint a picture of cities full of vehicles operating essentially as mobile pop-up stores, exploiting the hyperconsumerism of the Sphere by way of 'random' appearance... that static storefront remains every day, but that unfolding-shoptruck lot is a completely different sort of goods or services every time, novelty uniqueness buybuybuy!

    With such trucks buzzing about constantly to new locations, who'd notice if a few never unfolded to make sales because in reality there's a full Infinity list of troops incl. TAG inside riding to their next clandestine op.
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Any ground vehicle is going to have to solve the problem of "what happens if I trip" with a solution that is not "don't trip". Tanks and cars have solved it by putting the weight so low that it's impossible to trip under even extraordinary operational parameters. Well, most cars. Every now and then there's car manufacturers that put tiny engines into tall cars (thus pushing the center of weight way too high) and everyone laughs at them for a year after they retract them from the market.
    Which is why you Carbonite it and then you push it over like it's a cow.
     
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  12. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    UPS vans are made mostly of plastic, lack the carrying capacity, and internal space required to load large machinery. This is why larger transport vehicles are used.

    So no, your original argument still does not stand. A van is not the way to transport a TAG - unless it has been specifically modified to do so and is large enough.

    I think they’re are plenty of other reasonable ways to transport a TAG to a ZO, many of them logical.

    I like a bunch of these ideas brought up, especially a pop-up shop. It could essentially be a military transport with a costume on. A TAG bursting from the noodle bar would be hilarious and scary.

    With all the crazy ideas on this thread, im surprised nobody brought up evangelian style launch tunnels. Illogical, but it would be cool to imagine your hidden deployment TAG popping up out of a hole in the street.
     
  13. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Somehow I was thinking about Asimov's "steel caverns" as described on Earth's far past in the Foundation saga... using the accesses to position the food trucks on strategic places, and rotating so they don't stay two days on the same place.

    From the rooftops, indeed :p

    Erhm... Why must we consider that the UPS trucks have the same gear and setup than the police ones? I mean, I've worked in public transportation, and part of the formation included "how things are bought": sometimes you buy the bus as you see it on the street, but sometimes you buy everything but the chassis, seats, etc... (so, essentially, engine, skeleton, driver's stuff, wheels and little else) and then a customized work is made onto it by "chassing companies", like Irizar in Spain.
    So I'd guess that the police and the military gets something that looks the same from the outside, and the "box" is as they want it to be, thanks to a negligible increment in the cost (since everything else is the mass production stuff).

    For military operations that are public, yes. For black ops, well, you can't exactly use a military truck, nor a chopper, nor a plane, nor...

    In essence, if the van's cargo hold can be adapted or recrafted, you have what you want. The only problem can be the weight showing on the compression of the cushioning, that can either be considered an acceptable risk, or they change it also.

    It requires too big of a setup, tons of tunnels, and numberless holes through the city. A much better alternative, for the officially authorized missions like police ops, you can directly use a chopper.
     
  14. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    A modified commercial truck that can carry a TAG would be the easiest cover ops method along a vtol craft that can do the same.
     
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  15. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    @xagroth I really truly appreciate your well written arguments, Thank you. My main thing with the van is the weight, but you are right. a truck that has been modified to hold the weight may be okay/not too obvious. The last thing you want is to get pulled over by an officer who thinks you may be over capacity - might lead to an awkward conversation. And again, I agree a launch tunnel is horribly impractical.
     
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  16. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    This kind of trucks are common in cities. Drinks, vegetables, post, rubble, clothes, TAGs, moving services, contraband...

    Edit: this one is a DAF LF. Reading the brochure of last version, the rear axle can support from 5 to 13 tonnes, depending which parts you order.
     
    #96 Mob of Blondes, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  17. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing General Political Department

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    ... I vote 'Heavy Filthy' be made canon Human Sphere intel terminology for a disguised TAG transport vehicle.
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Those things, too.

    I should see if I can buy another Fast Panda Food Truck to build 'buttoned up' as a clandestine Troop Transport.


    You mean like the 14,500lb GVW I quoted for a FedEx-surplus truck? Might be 4000lbs empty, but I'd bet lighter (sound deadener is heavy, and those trucks don't have any). Leaves 10,000lbs for cargo. That's 5 tons, and the heavy TAGs like the Ariadnan RM100 only weigh 4 tons. A Squalo only weighs 2 tons. (Infinity N2 Rulebook, pg19)


    Seconded!
     
    #98 Section9, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  19. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    That’s a different argument than your initial arguments, which I was refuting ... but go ahead and waste more of your life researching carrying capacities for freight vehicles. As I’ve said, there are plenty that make sense. UPS step vans are not one of them.
     
  20. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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